S.2 Ep.24 TMH Kelly Ennis - The Future of Office in Construction
Since most office-based workforce was forced into working from home over two years ago, many theories have been swirling around about "the future of the office". While the debate isn't entirely settled, today it at least seems clear that offices will indeed continue to exist and play an essential role for most companies.
Kelly Ennis is a workplace strategist and the Founding Principal of The Verve Partnership, an interior architecture/design firm. Kelly joins the huddle to share her expert views on the future of the office and what that could mean for the construction industry in terms of trends in the types of construction projects we'll see in the office market sector and other related topics.
Transcript:
00:00
Speaker 1
We need to get back to work. And work is one of the ways that we contribute to this country, that we grow our gdp, we grow our tax base, we contribute to each other effectively. We help finance our national security, our homeland security, our, you know, our infrastructure. I had key employees that really wanted to be leaders in the company, but.
00:19
Speaker 2
They didn't want to have any ownership.
00:20
Speaker 1
In it, responsibility that way. So I just had to start researching.
00:24
Speaker 2
Out and figuring out, well, how.
00:26
Speaker 1
Do I market my company? Go to your local school board for one hour twice this year. And if you can have even just 10 or 15 employers show up and do that at the same school board every single month, there's two contractors filling out a little card to give your 30 seconds at the podium that says, I need your help and we have great jobs. Eventually they will hear you. But if everyone just did two hours a year, that's how we change this. Stacy, how you doing this morning?
00:50
Speaker 2
I'm doing great.
00:52
Speaker 1
She loves it. I ask the question every time she says, like, I'm fine, dude, just a little much.
01:00
Speaker 3
And I say to that owner, I said, sue, you're not willing to invest in yourself. You're not going to invest in yourself. You're going to invest in companies you have no control over, whereas your company, you control. And you don't have the confidence to pour the money into that. When things are busy and they're looking for their GC friends to sit down and negotiate a project on a GC and a fee, and they're more excited about building the project, and then all of a sudden the model, the market swings and now the developer market is wanting to go out and they're going to hard bid the same project to two or three different GCs. And that's where it starts going down.
01:43
Speaker 1
It's morning huddle time. Chad Prinke here with Kelly Ennis. Kelly, how are you this morning?
01:48
Speaker 2
I'm great, Chad, how are you doing?
01:50
Speaker 1
Great, thank you. Thanks so much for being here. So Kelly is the managing partner of the Verve Partnership, which is an interior architecture and design firm in the Baltimore and sort of, I guess, mid Atlantic region. You're doing work not just here locally, but regionally. Kelly, what's. What's going on in your world these days?
02:15
Speaker 2
Oh, a lot. A lot is going on in our world, proverbially speaking. We are busy and we are busy trying to help people figure out what the next step is with their office strategies.
02:28
Speaker 1
Awesome.
02:29
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's keeping us really busy.
02:30
Speaker 1
So that's what we're Going to be digging into today is really the future of the office, which is, you know, maybe a played out discussion intensely over the past couple of years. But I, I think we're at a place where we're ready to stop talking about what might be happening and we're ready to start talking about what is happening. Right. Intangibly. This is what is going on. And to your point, this isn't conjecture, this isn't stuff that we're imagining, but this is what's keeping the Verve partnership busy right now. This is what's keeping firms like yours and the construction industry can expect to see a lot of stuff coming down the line. I know the office market never went away during the pandemic, but there were certainly a lot, there was a lot of uncertainty.
03:19
Speaker 1
Have you seen that uncertainty start to dissipate at this point?
03:27
Speaker 2
I think the uncertainty is definitely waning. People are itching to get back. People perform better face to face. People react better face to face. It's just all across the board from a culture standpoint. People need people and we need to be together. Virtual is great. It served a need. But it also proved a lot of things that we have been working on our entire careers that hybrid does in fact work culture. If you're designing and planning to a culture that works. If you have flexible work from home policies, that works. So, you know, we're seeing it all come back, come back to the forefront.
04:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's, and it's a really, it's a good point. It's that in the office environment, depending on the type of business you are, right. You were already running hybrid work. That was, that was happening as it was heading into the pandemic. Certain positions maybe weren't used to working from home or working from anywhere. What, you know, whatever that means. But specifically, as we think about our audience, which is made up largely of construction companies, general contractors, subcontractors, and to another extent, you know, architecture and engineering and design firms. There's a field aspect to being, you know, a construction company where depending on the company it could be the majority of your workforce is actually, you know, not working from the office. So that was something. When you and I were talking, I was like, right, duh, you know, that's.
05:16
Speaker 1
If that's not, I guess that's hybrid, right? It's some version thereof. But it's still. But what I will say is this, and this is something I'd be interested in your comment on is that I have noticed and I Think there's been a lot of discussion about over the years that there is a little bit of a divide between the office and the field. I wish there weren't, and in some companies there isn't. But there's a bit of a divide between the office and the field. And I do think that there's some aspect of that just goes to the fact that they're not working side by side every day. So, anyway, I'll ask you weigh in on the balance. How do we pull off hybrid correctly? How do we make sure that we're not now having a divide between the office and so on.
06:05
Speaker 2
So that's a lot of questions to answer. So a couple things. What we have to understand in the marketplace, generally speaking, that each market is. Is different. You have, you know, law firms that were, you know, slower to the. The hybrid, the hybrid office. But on the flip side, you know, like you said, your general audience, Hybrid's just a new word. People were had hybrid and flexible work from anywhere options. But hybrid is simply just a new word that's in response to the people pandemic in the general contracting field. Like you said, you have people in the field all the time. You have project managers some of the time, and then you have, you know, the corporate and headquarters kind of staff who is actually in the office occupying space, you know, 70, 80% of the time.
07:01
Speaker 2
So the differentiator is really understanding the strategy of the market with which we are designing and planning to. Each market is a little bit different. And like you said, in the general contracting world, you know, they've been doing hybrid technically for a very long time. It just wasn't hybrid, right? It just wasn't.
07:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about strategy a little bit more. When you say designing to strategy, what does that mean in real terms when it comes to how your clients are looking at their office space?
07:43
Speaker 2
Yep. We dig deep to figure out who's working, where, how they are working, and where they are working best and most productively. So different people can work at different times of day more effectively and in different kinds of space. You know, I. This is. Again, this is not all. This is not new information. You know, we've been planning for different settings. And I say settings. That is a setting. As a private office, a setting is a workstation. A setting is a. As a huddle, room is a conference room. And there are many, many different kinds of settings where throughout the course of the day, people can work differently and possibly work better. We were not really meant to sit in a box and be corralled in little squares, quite frankly, like cattle working, you know, sitting in an office all day long.
08:36
Speaker 2
We're just not programmed that way as human beings. So to have that differentiator throughout the course of the day, it's choosing how you want to work and where you want to work. And, you know, people are just generally happier that way, which is why the work from home piece of it is really successful. I myself work from home every morning. I don't even go into the office. And until later this afternoon, my head's down, time is at my house.
09:02
Speaker 1
Interesting. So I think what you're saying is intuitively true. Like, I believe that, but it's so antithetical to the traditional thought process of the office. And so I don't know, I recognize you keep on prefacing things by saying, like, this isn't new, but it is kind of new to me. I'm not an expert what you're talking about, and I'm guessing there's probably a lot of our guests, I'm sorry, a lot of our audience, that this is kind of new for when I think about this, I'm like, were we prioritizing for, you know, decades, just sort of productivity and maximize, like maximizing space as the way of achieving productivity or something like that. Like, like what hard data started to create this strategy first approach that you're using?
10:08
Speaker 2
So again, lots of questions with lots of answers. We can start with how people work differently. And the data that supports it is really catering to the culture of the individual industries, if you will. Like I said, you know, law firms are a really good example for a very long time, the law industry, if you will, people didn't work outside of their office. If they weren't sitting in their office, they were clearly not being billable, which is a very. It's a very huge metric in the legal industry. Whereas what the pandemic proved is that people can actually work quite effectively from their house or from different areas. So when we talk about the data is more in kind of an organizational development category. But if you can track productivity and you can track performance.
11:12
Speaker 2
And that's where, you know, the whole performance review thing comes up and people track those metrics. And in the construction, again, I'm going to kind of go back to the construction field because it's a perfect example. People usually aren't in the office when they're working in the field, they're working on A dedicated project. And if that project coming out of the ground doesn't keep track with the schedule or keep track with milestones, or keep track with expectations, it's very apparent, very similar in professional services.
11:43
Speaker 1
Interesting. Yeah, I think that's right. And so I, as I think about, I don't know, I know you've actually had some experience in building for, designing for builders, which is pretty cool.
11:59
Speaker 2
Yeah.
11:59
Speaker 1
What are some of the things that you have that you would call out that you've done when you're designing for builders? In this case, it's general contractors. I don't know if you've done subcontractor spaces, but talk about the space that you've done for general contractor. Some of the trends.
12:16
Speaker 4
So.
12:17
Speaker 2
Excuse me. In designing and planning for general contractors, we've done two here in the region, it's very important to have shared collaborative spaces, project room kind of spaces, huddle spaces where both you have, you know, this kind of technology so you can, you know, throw up a plan and you know, have your team and your subcontractors join in the office.
12:43
Speaker 1
Right. People are out in the field. We want to be able to bring them right into the people who are in the office and have this sort of seamless meeting on the spot.
12:52
Speaker 2
Yep. So technology is really important, but you also have a myriad of generations and sometimes actually seeing a physical plan, you know, that is 30 by 42, 36 by 48, you need some big desks, you need some big meeting space to actually drill down and look at that. You know, the analog nature of what plans are telling you. I'm a paper person. I like to look at paper, I like to review drawings in paper. And I need a big desk to do that or big meeting table to do that with my peers. Same with general contractors.
13:28
Speaker 2
So again, it kind of goes back to, you can't do it at your desk prompt room, but creating those project room and project areas where people can get out of their desk, go to a common table and just kind of dig in and, you know, solve problems.
13:42
Speaker 1
Are you seeing anybody? That's. That makes total sense what you're describing. And I've definitely been in my clients offices, general contractors, subcontractors, different spaces and felt constrained, you know, when they don't have the right space for stuff and we're cramming into an area or you can see the frustration on the face of that person who is a paper person who's trying to get the plans open and talk about them. And then I have been in actually, in fact in some of your clients spaces and felt the exact opposite. Sort of felt like this enablement of what it is that we're going. So it matters, it really matters. And so I can sense when it's done right here's a little bit of a sidewinder.
14:33
Speaker 1
And I have to ask, is anybody actively talking about and planning for like, oh God, I'm going to sound terrible, but like germ free kind of solutions in the office? Are they, are they like, is that going to be a thing where people are thinking about like, okay, and so how do we adjust when we need to, you know, isolate each other? Like, I'm just really afraid that we're all going to become extremely OCD germaphobes and their office spaces are going to accommodate the insanity.
15:10
Speaker 2
So I think you had people like that before the pandemic and the whole kind of the shared desk kind of thing, you know, that's, you know, we're seeing not our clients, but you know, out there on the street with other, you know, articles that I'm reading is okay, always have like this little kit like okay, that's great. But at the end of the day it really comes down to air circulation, air exchange. And I often say, you know, we can design and plan and develop strategies all day long. If you're in a class C building from 1988 that has horrible rooftop units or any sort of H vac systems that are not, you know, high of higher quality, it's about air. So you gotta balance design and strategy with the quality of the air.
16:05
Speaker 2
That is the biggest component that should, that will be addressing any sort of, kind of phobias that people may or may not have. You know, we can design and plan all day long, but if you're still circulating bad air, you know, that's a whole different conversation.
16:23
Speaker 1
That's a really fair point. And I, and I do, I think it is the mechanical systems that you have in place, the H VAC systems that you have in place, those are going to be the places where you actually keep people healthier. The rest of it's just kind of policy, right? Like you know, wash your hands, you know, and other, you know, simple kids right when they're five years old, not super complicated. I'm just, it's, it just fascinates me. I just picture this world where we walk into offices and everything's like, you know, everybody's hermetically sealed in their envelope and I'M like, that doesn't seem, that seems actually like we should all go back home. That's not the intent.
17:09
Speaker 1
All right, so what can contractors start to think about and expect in terms of materials, in terms of, you know, things that they need to be, you know, see as you're on the design end, things that they need to be prepared to see coming down the pike when it comes to office construction, you know, in the, at least for the foreseeable future.
17:39
Speaker 2
Qualify materials for me.
17:41
Speaker 1
So what kinds of materials are you seeing specified? Is anything, is anything new being specified? Is there anything coming down the line in terms of, you know, technology that's being specified? Is there? You know, like. I hope that answers your question. I'll shut up for a second.
17:59
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, to some degree, I think I'm going to go back with air. I think our peers and our consultants, really, we all need to either be reeducated or hone in on what we already know about air quality and air exchange rates. I think that is key in the health care industry, which we don't practice. We're not in the health care market sector. But from a material standpoint, you know, there's a lot of, you know, topical antimicrobial kind of solutions already built in with, say, within textiles and wall coverings that you use, you know, in a hospital type situation.
18:38
Speaker 1
Some of that stuff may be adopted.
18:40
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, adopts. Adopt some of the design solutions that, you know, that the healthcare industry has been using over time. But I still go right back to air every time. Like I said, we can design and specify all day long if the air is still not clean. It's not helping.
19:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's not helping you along those lines. One of the things that I have actually recently seen, and gosh, I feel so guilty that I can't plug the company. I wasn't, I wasn't anticipating this opportunity to do so. But there is a company that I recently became aware of that is actually releasing their. They're basically monitoring air exchange room by room, installing these sort of sensors, and then it becomes sort of controlled by an application. And that then becomes something that you can use to make decisions about how to set up your mechanical systems. Moving forward. I just, I think that type of Internet of things, you know, solution for air exchange is something that we're going to see become very normal. I know they're hoping it will be.
19:58
Speaker 2
They are, they are. I think I probably know who you're talking about. But yes, those types of tools and technology can Only better all of our situations.
20:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, right on, agreed. So what is the importance? Okay, well put it this way. The importance of a well integrated virtual in person meeting space. That space that you described, that I think, you know, hey, we can easily pull our members of the field right into our conference space and we can have this collaborative meeting and it doesn't feel like a mess when we do it. That's obviously really important. But what, how else is space changing? You talked a little bit earlier about, you know, different settings, you know, how else is space changing touch all employees?
20:56
Speaker 2
So that's not a one sided comment. And I'm kind of monitoring some of the comments in the chat over here which are extremely fascinating. And I'm going to go.
21:05
Speaker 4
I know.
21:05
Speaker 1
I do the same things.
21:07
Speaker 2
I'm going to go to a kind of a. Just a comment that I've been writing a piece on is really honing in on the co working mindset. So one of our verticals is co working and innovation. And in that type of space it's a highly flexible, highly amenitized, highly collaborative type of space where people can move about throughout the course of the day with some level of structure, but with also some level of freedom. And I keep going back to, you know, if we're designing spaces where people actually want to be and you couple that with a policy or a co working mindset, people still need to have face to face meetings in order to be successful. Especially in design and construction. When you have touch things, you know, you have materials, you have building materials, you have furniture.
22:05
Speaker 2
In our world to do all of that virtually is not always going to work. So having the options and the policies to have a co working mindset in a typical corporate office I think is really going to beneficial. Co working spaces at the moment are really not that they weren't already taking off already. But the well run, very well organized co working is not just only about two and three person offices anymore. You know, we're designing spaces that have a huge centralized core of all kinds of meeting spaces. You know, a bar, a training room, a place to have, you know, board meetings and then smaller huddle rooms across the way, phone rooms. And then you know, your companies that are occupying up to 3 and 6,000 square feet have access to these.
22:56
Speaker 2
It really is, you know, what's the mindset and what's the policy and then design and plan space where people actually want to be to entice them back into the office.
23:12
Speaker 1
Isn't that a funny term to entice them back into the office? Such a fun like that. It's like, come on, we gotta. It's. It's real nice in here. I'm going to pull Stacy in and when I do that, I want to make one quick comment. Just that I think the importance of the. The types of space that you do create in your office, in this hybrid work environment, which, by the way, again, in the construction industry we've been having for a long time. Have you been creating space where people want to get together, where the culture organizes opportunities to pull people together? Because I will tell you the one thing that does worry me. I can't help it. Maybe I'm a little old school. I'd be open to people picking on me for it.
24:00
Speaker 1
But I gotta tell you, I think when we only see each other virtually and we get together extremely rarely, that it does erode on some level my sense of. What's the right word? Loyalty, perhaps, or connection with an organization and with. And maybe with my direct boss or the people that I work with. And it makes it much easier for me to kind of, I don't know, not be a part of the culture or in some way be detached. Makes it easier. It kind of, you know, I'm afraid, might amplify some of the job hopping that. That, you know, I think is, you know, sometimes necessary, obviously, but. But overall economy wide unproductive. Stacy, we've got. I'm seeing a super active chat situation going on, so why don't you channel some of these questions into Kelly while we have her.
24:58
Speaker 4
Hi, Kelly. Sorry I'm a little late here. Yeah, we have some great interaction. Everyone's just commenting on, you know, the status, whether they're remote or 50 or mostly in the office. But it's just kind of funny, you know, if I asked this question prior to the pandemic, I pretty much think we would all say were in the office 100%. So definitely a lot of change. We did have a good question from Bill Wilson. He said, are you seeing a change in staff density or sense of separation in office design?
25:38
Speaker 2
So that's. I did see that come through. So the challenge to answering that question is because our approach is always about strategy and asking the right questions. If your office was overly dense, that tells me somebody wasn't asking the right questions. A lot of your technology companies were using something called, like, it's called a benching system, where each person only had four or five feet and then people would jam pack themselves in there. We don't approach space like that because each, like I said, each person works differently. And if you can kind of find a baseline, it shouldn't, I mean the bottom line answer is yes, it should be less dense than it was. I would say a good 60 to 70% of spaces out there pre pandemic were way too dense.
26:32
Speaker 2
I think you're going to see less dense spaces, but you're going to see a rise in the common spaces. Like I go back to the co working mindset, the shared highly amenitized meeting zones, coffee zones, bar conference areas to accommodate for flexibility and less dense spaces. So the quick answer is yes.
26:56
Speaker 1
Yeah, but, but I'm, but I'm hearing you say that yes, comma, because people were just smushed together in a lot of these situations. Not because we're becoming, you know, whatever we need to separate more now after the pandemic or something. But it's actually created a little bit of awareness.
27:15
Speaker 2
Yes, awareness is a good word.
27:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm. Did you see this question from Dennis Stacy, Dennis Kasich about pool planning and such like that? It says. I'll just read it off here. It's, it says we, Dennis says, we found some types of meetings must be in person. Things like pool planning, scheduling, commissioning meetings. During this type of meeting you may need, you need many people to be able to join and remote has its drawbacks. So, so you know, not an explicit question therein but you know, agree, disagree. What are you seeing, Kelly?
27:55
Speaker 2
Agree. I absolutely agree people. We face to face works because it's quicker. You can, and you can solve a lot more problems in a lot less time. Face to face. I absolutely agree. Remote's good. Virtual is good. I mean we're here doing this virtually right now anyway, you know, so. But when we meet face to face, it's much more effective and it's much more efficient use of time and you get to problem solving quicker. And I see that as a common theme over here on the chat. You know, people like to work at home and they like to go in for face to face meetings. That's usually the case even pre pandemic. So I think a lot of policies will change as a result.
28:38
Speaker 1
So this isn't necessarily the focus of this show, but I have to say this, which is if you're going to bring people in for in person meetings, make sure they don't suck, make sure that you're capitalizing on the opportunity to actually plan a good meeting, execute a good meeting, and do stuff in the meeting that can't really actually be done very well virtually that elevate the quality of the meeting, like getting up and using a whiteboard or like, you know, using sticky notes and right. You're doing a pool planning session, those different types of things. If you're gonna get people together in person, just make sure that everybody doesn't look at each other and be like, dude, that could have been an email.
29:15
Speaker 2
But I think with that said, I think it's also leaving some time for some social interactions that you may have missed because when you're not together, like you said this a little bit earlier, Chad, you're not together. When you can't see people physically, that's a. It's challenging. Right? So when you are together physically, just set aside some time for, you know, some small talk or a cup of coffee and make sure people are engaged, you know, pre, during and after the meeting. Because that's how we re establish some of the connections that we lost because, you know, were home for almost two years.
29:51
Speaker 1
Love it. Yeah, love it. That's great stuff. Stacy, what else we got?
29:54
Speaker 4
Yeah, I have a quick question. So meeting spaces, you talk a lot about the future of work being very collaborative. Is there any need for, like, I just worry about, you know, you're trying to draw people back into the office, but those people that still want the collaboration, but also independent space or that are you seeing, like, I don't know if I missed that in the first 10 minutes, so I apologize.
30:28
Speaker 2
So that's going to boil down to policies. What are your work from home policies or, you know, Steelcase termed this phrase years, almost 20 years ago, developing me spaces, my spaces, me spaces and we spaces and having those dedicated desks or dedicated, you know, phone rooms, quiet rooms, small one and two person rooms, where that is heads down space. So it's really, and again, it's very dependent on the market sector. But having a healthy balance of me and we spaces as it applies to the organization that we are working with is critical to the success of all the organizations that we work with only because everybody works differently. And general contractors work differently than accountants work differently than architects and designers. That's where the strategy piece comes back in.
31:24
Speaker 2
And programming a space properly and really drilling under, drilling down and understanding where people work, when they work, and what makes them, you know, the most productive with a high performance value. And you know, sometimes it's 11 o' clock at night.
31:41
Speaker 1
Funny, isn't? Yeah, Not. Not for me.
31:44
Speaker 2
Not for me.
31:45
Speaker 1
At 11 o', clock, I am guaranteed to be snoring. So. So, you know, one of the things that I'm laughing about as I'm thinking through this whole. Like, I don't envy your role sometimes, Kelly, where if you're starting with strategy first and you're talking to people about culture, and then there you're building a space to match their culture, what happens when you come in and you're like, oh, man, these guys have serious cultural problems. Do you build a dysfunctional space or, like, what do you do?
32:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, we have to. I mean, we drill down on what those. It's usually a communication problem. It's you, nine times out of ten, all about communication. And we have consultants who are better equipped than we are to actually address. Address those kinds of challenges, and we bring them on our team as part of the workplace strategy process. Because then you can veer off into two different problem solving methods. And then when you come back, the space aligns, you know, aligns with those challenges, but it's usually about communication is where the disconnect and the culture happens.
32:46
Speaker 1
That's a really. That's a really good point. You know, I've noted and I see this, you know, comment here about, you know, we have beautiful break rooms, but very few people actually use them. You know, one of the. And I've seen this a ton, you know, where we'll. I'll be in a client's office or a potential client's office or whatever, and I'll be like, oh, my gosh, this is a gorgeous space. And they're like, yeah, we never use that. And, you know, it's. It's. When it comes to this type of stuff, it's not. If you build it, they will come. Unless it was a part of your culture, you creating collaborative spaces won't make you a collaborative company, you know.
33:18
Speaker 2
Right. So the interesting thing on that aspect is if your senior leadership is not using those spaces that they just, you know, paid a bunch of money to design and plan, it's follow the leader. If the leaders of those organizations are not using the spaces that they designed for their teams, then nobody's going to use them because there's a preconceived. There's a conception, right. That if my boss isn't using the space, then I, oh, my gosh, I can't be seen working on my laptop, drinking coffee in a break room.
33:47
Speaker 1
Totally. Yeah. We have A ping pong table. But because the bosses never use the ping pong table never gets you. There is, there's a culture. That awesome book I do, man, I'm having a hard time pulling it. That is about primal leadership that has different leadership styles, you know, and pace setting leaders. Right? It's exactly what you're talking in construction. I see a ton of pace setting leaders right there. They are hard charging. They set the standard. Everybody respects them because they work really hard. Right? All these different types of things. And in construction, if we want to attract people to have this better work life balance and this better sense of contribution and this more, you know, connection and collaboration, all those types of things, because we're desperately trying to get people and keep people.
34:35
Speaker 1
Those leaders need to build those spaces and leverage those spaces, set the pace. That doing that is cool. And it's actually a part of what we want to encourage here. It's such a good point that it could be as simple as the boss just taking a moment, really easy stuff. You're like, yeah, dumb, easy. Why aren't we doing this? This has been awesome. Kelly, thank you so much for this conversation. I am not shocked that went over, but, you know, I think I sincerely hope that our audience had some really cool takeaways. Construction companies thinking about how they create office spaces that match what they're trying to become as businesses. So again, Kelly is with the Verve Partnership. She is an absolute rock star. Her team are wonderful and I would encourage anybody to reach out to Kelly if they have more questions.
35:29
Speaker 2
Thanks, Chad. Thanks.
35:30
Speaker 1
Thank you. Have a great one.
35:31
Speaker 2
All right, see you.
35:33
Speaker 4
Have a good day.
35:34
Speaker 1
Say, let's talk about next week.
35:36
Speaker 4
Yes, we have Matt Bulliard, I hope I pronounced that correctly, from Southway Builders joining us to talk about GC Sub Partnerships.
35:45
Speaker 1
Yeah, gc. Sorry, GC Owner Partnerships. Partnerships with Matt. So. Yeah, so. So Matt is with Southway Builders and it's funny how this thing materialized. I have a really great relationship with and a developer that does work across, you know, multiple states and their leadership team. I, I said, you know, I'd really like to bring in a general contractor that gets partnership that really understands how to partner with you as an owner. And you know, I wonder if you would be, you know, if there's any GC that you'd like to connect. They didn't skip a beat. They said, you should talk to Matt Bolliard at Southway. And I was like, wow, that's a heck of an endorsement from their customer. And. And, you know, they were like, we'll introduce you. And I was like, I actually know Matt, so, like, that's easy. That's easy.
36:36
Speaker 1
I was expecting to work across, like, 15 states, and. And. And they said, you should talk to Matt Bollard right next to you. And I was like, how funny is that? So, yeah, so we're bringing in Matt and look forward to that conversation. Reminder, as always, because every time we remind you, we get more. So keep them coming. Send email. Send Stacy an email if you want to get added to our weekly list. You'll get an email from Steeltoe Communications that gives you a rundown on everything that's coming up in the next, you know, show and recordings of the previous show. Stacy, is there anything else that you want toss out there before we sign off for the day?
37:13
Speaker 4
Nope. I think we're good to go. Just two more episodes left, right?
37:17
Speaker 1
Just two more episodes this season. Then we're back in the fall reload. What are you gonna do for two months, Stacy? Because I don't. I don't know if anybody. I don't even have a day job. This is just what I do. This is what I. I just hang out here and do this.
37:31
Speaker 4
It's been great, though. I love meeting the people that come on the show and the people that participate in the audience. It's been so great. So we'll start looking for guests for June, like we said, and if you're interested, please send me an email.
37:46
Speaker 1
Guess for September, just so that everybody's got that right.
37:49
Speaker 2
Yeah, we're.
37:50
Speaker 1
Yep. We're wrapping up. We're stopping here in the. In, like, the. Toward the end of. We've got two months to reload. I think we have eight out of the 13 guests that we want for next season lined up, or 12 guests. So we have four spaces left. And we'd really love to hear from anybody that has a story to tell. So thank you. See you, Stacey.
38:10
Speaker 2
Have a great one later.
