S.1 Ep.14 TMH Change Order Management
Guest: Ayo Idowu
Topic: Change Order Management
Transcript:
00:00
Speaker 1
The morning huddle. We're warming up here, giving everybody a little chance to show up. IO were just talking family. IO you say you have a. How many kids you have?
00:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've got two. I'm a lucky and blessed guy to have two healthy kids. I've got a 10 year old and who loves soccer so much and a six. A six year old who rules our home, if you know what I mean. She's the dipper in the house. Yeah. But you know, we're blessed, we're lucky. Thankful, you know, thankful through them. They keep us busy.
00:35
Speaker 1
Yeah, kids are awesome. Stacy, how old's yours?
00:38
Speaker 3
Three and a half. Little boy.
00:41
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
00:43
Speaker 3
Yeah, but soon, this summer, I want to get them into something and I. It's probably going to be soccer. I don't know what else you can get that, you know, age into so early.
00:53
Speaker 1
You'd be amazed.
00:54
Speaker 3
Really?
00:55
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, he'd be amazed.
00:57
Speaker 2
That's. That's a good choice, by the way. Good sport, Good choice. Keeps them busy, keeps. Wears them out so when they get right on, you can easily put them to bed. You know what I mean?
01:10
Speaker 1
In the pantheon of sports, in terms of like parental commitment, it's a great place to start both time wise and financially. You know, my oldest son is nine and he is a very serious hockey goalie. And hockey goalie is a serious financial commitment.
01:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that. So, you know, it's the same with, I hear it's the same with the baseball as well. Right?
01:45
Speaker 1
Those bats are like $500 these days. It's crazy.
01:48
Speaker 2
Yeah. So. So I think my wife and I picked the right sport then.
01:51
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:52
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:53
Speaker 2
All you need is just a second cleats and a pair of, you know, shin guards and that's it.
01:59
Speaker 1
Yep, that's it. And so, and then if they end up loving it, then you end up getting the expensive cleats. But it's at least not an insane initial commitment. All right, it's morning huddle time. Let's get this thing going. It is the morning of January 20th, whatever day it is.
02:16
Speaker 2
Geez.
02:17
Speaker 1
25Th, 25th, 2022. This marks our last episode of season one. Stacy and I didn't, for the record, didn't know there would be a season one. We thought there would be six episodes and not really episodes, but just like a six part series. And here we are. I mean, you know, the demand spiked. We heard from such incredible people who have stories to tell and, and ways to help to create positive change in the building industry. And so this platform not only expanded from 6 episodes to 14 episodes for this initial run, but we're coming back in April after a two month break for at least 12 to 14 additional episodes for season two. And we're gonna keep doing it as long as people keep asking to do it and as long as the message is still out there.
03:06
Speaker 1
We really appreciate everybody who's gone along with us for the journey here in season one. And today is going to be an awesome conversation. Stacy, I always ask you something that takes you off your plan.
03:22
Speaker 2
Don't do it.
03:24
Speaker 1
All right, so I want to come to you at the end of today's episode and have you talk about some of the things that we're going to be doing in between in the next two months. And yeah, I think we have some ways that we're engaging and communicating with the audience and things like that in between. Yeah.
03:41
Speaker 3
Yes.
03:42
Speaker 1
Awesome. So as always, audience, please communicate with Stacy. We've got this LinkedIn Live opportunity. I know you're listening, so it's balancing act. But the more we can create an interesting dialogue in that chat and the more that we get interesting questions that we can pose at the end, Stacy can jump on in that last 10 minutes or so and channel your questions directly to our guest, which will help to create, I think, a more custom experience for those of you who got up bright and early, grabbed a cup of coffee and joined us for this morning. So Stacy, we'll see you in a bit.
04:17
Speaker 2
Thank you, Stacy.
04:18
Speaker 3
All right, thanks guys.
04:20
Speaker 1
All right, today's guest is IO Idowu. IO is an expert in change order management and he works for a company called Axios IO. Thanks for joining us. Maybe give us a little bit of your background.
04:37
Speaker 2
Good morning. Good morning to your audience. Chad, thanks again for, you know, inviting me over. We've had a good conversation. So our firm Axios is primarily a cost service provider and our services range from budgeting and benchmarking to procurement advice, construction port project management services to pre construction estimating. We also have. One of the services we also render is project scheduling and valley engineering services. So it's pretty much a broad across a broad cost services that we provide. We have.
05:19
Speaker 1
Who are your customers?
05:21
Speaker 2
Architects, engineers, owners, developers, contractors, subcontractors. So really? Yeah, yeah, it's a wide spectrum. We totally cover the entire aspect of construction cost services including auditing as well as facilities conditions assessments, damage assessments, etc. So it's pretty broad and we have five offices across the United States. Four in the East Coast. Our head office, our corporate office is in Alexander, Virginia. We have an office in Tampa, Florida. We have an office in Colorado. We have an office as well in Atlanta and as well an office in New York. And yeah, it's, we're. We're lucky enough to spread out tentacles around the east coast and hoping to expand.
06:13
Speaker 1
So what's your role in the, in the whole game? Like what do you spend your time doing? What's your. I mean, yeah, I know, but tell the audience what you're.
06:21
Speaker 2
So I have the privilege of managing the construction. I am the director of cost management services and I also run the cost support services. So talking about auditing change order management to other aspects in valor engineering. You know, so I'm lucky enough to have a team of, you know, really good professionals. A lot of, A lot of us are. A lot of them is certified quantity surveyor. So in other words, understanding construction lore, you know, how contracts are written, how contracts are, you know, I guess executed as well as, you know, certified cost estimators. So looking at budgeting from conceptuals phase all through to the end of the, you know, project cycle. So it's a really fun, fun to be a fun group, an exciting group, really experienced group.
07:22
Speaker 2
And part of the benefits of having the core group that we have is a lot of our staff are had experience in consulting world as well as construction world. So we kind of get both aspects of it. You get what I mean? On a personal level, I'm a trained civil engineer, a structural engineer. So I started out in the design office, you know, design bridges, tunnels, buildings etc then you know, progressed and moved into project management, construction, hard construction, heavy construction, have a civil construction, building hospitals etc. Then you know, it was really fascinated with costs and the impact of it. You know, it's something you can't get away with. So it's, you know, it's a really exciting, exciting part of the construction phase I guess. Design construction phase. Yeah.
08:12
Speaker 1
So, so I, I love if you are able to use, you use the term fun and exciting several different things. And I love that you can find the fun. There's certainly plenty of excitement in, in dealing with the, you know, the change order world. And so for our conversation today, I want to zoom. I know you could, we could talk about any number of different things with your background and your team's experience, all the different kinds of stories that you've come across. But I want to really zoom in to the topic of change orders. My. And what I see, I don't think there is any issue that is at the root of more conflict arguments and broken relationships than change orders.
09:03
Speaker 1
And I see it and I work with developers, I'm like you, I work with that whole gamut of folks who I've got the opportunity to see this from all different ends. But where I've had some of the more in depth conversations are with the trade contracting community. And when I'm speaking with, you know, these subcontractors, it's one of the things I know is that when they feel that they have not been treated fairly on change order, what it starts to create a cold war of sorts on the project where, you know, it may not be a hot war where they're actively, you know, fighting, but you're not gonna get their help anymore right there. You're gonna get the minimum of what they can get away with and all the work is going to be performed with kind of a chip on their shoulder.
09:59
Speaker 1
And you could say that's cutting off your nose despite your face. But I would argue the same thing when it comes to, you know, creating some of these rifts in the first place. But so here's, here's what I want to get to with your experiences, what are the most con, what the most common conflicts you're seeing with change orders? What's, you know, what's the situation you've borne more witness to than any other.
10:22
Speaker 2
So a lot of, so like you and I know it's almost impossible to, well, almost impossible to avoid the issue of change orders in a construction contract.
10:34
Speaker 1
Right.
10:35
Speaker 2
That's. There are construction clauses that relates to change orders in every construction contract. So part of some of the errors, some of the, I guess, challenges we see or the conflicts we see arise from, you know, either contract omissions, contract errors, unclear and undefined scopes. Right. So for example, the contractor expects, you know, the contract documents spell out so much and the owner, you know, expectation is different. So unclear expectations, undefined expectations. A lot of times then errors and claims. Right. It brings me to a situation or one of the, an instance where we're reviewing a change order and part of the claims the, you know, the contractor or subcontractor was requesting for was a delay claim. I mean, I know we'll get to that in the future, but some of it was avoidable.
11:29
Speaker 2
Was more of an issue that had to do with constructability and you know, coordination, etc, so that obviously, I mean issues like that cause issues. Right, right. Failure to comply to the contract, you know, different site conditions. So it's a whole peripheral list that potentially could affect or create conflicts in a contract or in a construction contract.
11:54
Speaker 1
Yeah, so the, the nature of, you know, the, of building in an uncontrolled environment is change.
12:03
Speaker 2
Right.
12:04
Speaker 1
So, so what we're not going to be able to control for is every potential change. It's. But, but what you're saying is that there are conflict situations that arise that are totally on, that are totally avoidable, you know, that are. Yes, we couldn't have seen the change coming, but the conflict we could have. The conflict we could have seen coming and we could have done things to prevent. Talk to us about some of the things that you would be recommending for. If my goal was to run a project with, you know, great, I want to minimize change orders, but let's leave that off to the side. Let's. I want to run a project where we have no change order conflict, how would we pull that off?
12:47
Speaker 2
So the first thing is to establish a good process. So one of the things we've noticed or experienced or personally I've experienced is that there is very, there's a very limited definition or description in every construction contract clause for changes. So a lot of clauses limited to, well, this is what the percentage of markups that the subcontractor or the prime contractor and the subcontractors are entitled to. But if there is no clear definition in the process as to how it's been submitted, the amount of markups that contractors are entitled to. So just as an example, we always advise our clients to kind of establish a rules of engagement. In other words, what does that really mean? Every trade is unique on its own. Right.
13:42
Speaker 2
So rules of engagement, part of the things in that and the rules of engagement that we recommend to our clients as the same as a point of negotiation, at least before say a GMP is signed or is to establish, for example, how do you deal with your labor hours? Right. How do you deal with your labor hours for specialty trade like electrical, mechanical. Those trades are, you know, there's what we call the Nika National. Like a lot of them are union or mcaa. So establishing the parameters of which labor hours are established.
14:15
Speaker 1
This is the, this is the standard we're all agreeing we're going to work from. And just as a quick aside, I don't mean to take you too. Don't Go down this rabbit hole. Just answer as quick as we can. Who would that conversation happen between? Would that between the subcontractor and the gc?
14:32
Speaker 2
All parties. So it's all parties. So typically the owner inserts this clause or disclaimer, definition or process into the contract with the gc. So part of the challenges that we see is sometimes the GC doesn't necessarily pass that on to the subs.
14:51
Speaker 1
So when you say sometimes. My experience is almost all the time they do that in any nefarious way. I just think it's not. It's not a part of the common practice to say, oh, hey, by the way, here's our contract with the owner.
15:07
Speaker 2
Correct. So it's imperative that. That whatever. There's a. Whatever contract that the general contractor is tied to with the owner that affects the subcontractors, that information needs to be passed on to the subcontractor. You know, you know, markups, you know, things like. Is as simple as warranty on material, a symbol of how you deal with equipment cost, labor cost, material costs, Right. Sometimes change orders. There's a particular contract I'm. I mean, I'm involved in now, and most of the change orders are potentially just on proposals. Right. Most owners don't pay proposals. They should be based on invoices when it comes to material costs. Right. So there's the, you know, you see them arms in the air, saying, well, well, this is what the proposal we're getting. But really, in reality, to be fair to the owner as well as the GC or the sub.
16:02
Speaker 2
I beg your pardon, Subcontractor. Most material costs should be based on invoices. Right. So it's a whole list, you know, also talking about what they're entitled to with regards to safety. Right. So each trade has its uniqueness. So our recommendation is always to negotiate or at least negotiate with the prime contractor and the subcontractor what would be allowed for each of these markups or each of these issues that. Or items that you typically will see in a change order.
16:34
Speaker 1
Yeah.
16:34
Speaker 2
Right. So again, like I said, bad process or no process. Right, Right.
16:39
Speaker 1
Bad process, no process.
16:41
Speaker 2
Yeah.
16:43
Speaker 1
And that I think a part of what I'm taking away from this is that is also born from, you know, either lack of conversation or, you know, insufficient conversation or lack of conversation or no conversation whatsoever. So. So the process, you know, one of the. And you tell me what you think of this. One of the things I've said to my subcontractor clients over the years is I'VE said to them, you need to establish your own internal standard for how you're going to submit change orders that is at a level of backup and claire and clarity that is beyond the level that anybody would ever say is insufficient. In other words, it's more than most people would ask for and it's as much as the most demanding customer would ask for.
17:31
Speaker 2
And that's really difficult for sub, for subcontractors because it's almost sharing their trade secrets. You know what I mean? But, you know, for a successful, I guess, change negotiations, openness and fairness is the ideal. Right. Building relationships based on trust and openness. I mean, may I even add that part of the things that we always recommend to negotiate specifically for change orders is labor rates. Right. Discuss fringes, discuss benefits. Right. Make, make it know as clear and fair and open as possible. What happens is in the long run, it reduces conflicts. It reduces, you know, issues in the future. Right. Because it's inevitable. Like we all said you mentioned, you know, that conflict. I mean changes would arise. But once those things are ironed out, it makes the other, you know, I guess negotiations easier.
18:29
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm sitting here thinking about all of the reasons that different players in this, you know, different parties involved in a project may use as an excuse to not do what you're suggesting. I, my gut says the number one excuse would be we don't have time.
18:51
Speaker 2
Correct. Which is always the temptation. But it's, we, it's smart and wise to invest the time early than dealing with issues. Part of the complaints we get from subcontractors or the general contractors aspect is delay in responding to change requests. Right. So the negotiation process takes so long. Right. And owners are getting wiser now. Right. They're, they're more experienced and getting into the weeds of it. Right. Especially, you know, I have a client who would look into the wage rate. Right. Make sure it's comparable, actually dictate in their contract clause. Right. Whether it's a union. Union. Whether it's a union contractor and negotiate a blended rate for, you know, for their labor rates, which in fairness is, you know, it's really, in our opinion, it's fair. Right.
19:48
Speaker 2
Because most, for example, the specialty trades use, you know, use softwares and tools that automatically break them out and you know, break them out into whether it's a journeyman, just provision, apprentice, etc. Right. On the owner's side, that seems like compounding on the cost. It's a really tough, it's really tough, you know, part. But I think once that conversation is at Leon, it makes it easy. It makes the process easier.
20:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. Before we're actually talking about real hard costs on a real hard situation where everybody's kind of figure you're playing some defense. Let's talk about things before there's any actual money on the line.
20:27
Speaker 2
Correct.
20:27
Speaker 1
Take some time, be transparent, do some education of one another and. And get a mutual agreement in place that we can all say that is fair. And. And what we're doing is eliminating the future fight. I think that's what we're. I think that's the overall player. There's one key takeaway for everybody to this point.
20:45
Speaker 2
Yes. Again. Again, I'm hoping that you're. I mean, not just your audience, realize that these are points of negotiations. There's really no hard way into it. I mean, a hard role. So these are things that, you know, obviously should be part of the conversation to ease some of the challenges that potentially would arise in the future. Yeah.
21:05
Speaker 1
And what I would recommend is that each entity does some thinking about the standards that they would naturally want to bring to the table entering into that negotiation so that they don't go into negotiation, you know, walking out feeling like they were, you know, forced to do something they didn't want to do.
21:26
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you should also understand that the GCs, a lot of times, every responsible GC would always fight for their subs anyway. Right. So it's important for the GC to carry their subcontractors along and to maintain that relationship, you know, and maintain an easier process. Another key point is to, you know, I would say is invest in a good quality. I mean, a good. I mean, I beg your pardon. Quality document control tool. Right. You know, that simplifies a process. Right. You know, I mean, I'm not marketing for any of these, but, you know, think tools like Pro Core, you know, the likes of those, invest in a good quality control tool. It helps the process actually a little bit smoother.
22:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. So in addition to having the thorough discussion up front be, you know, top notch on your documentation and controls as a. As a discipline, and go ahead and make the investment in some sort of supporting technology to make that something that's easier to manage. Love it. Good stuff. So. So you and I, we had a brief discussion leading into this. That. That is acknowledge. We both know this could be a massive can of worms. But I do want to enter into this briefly, which is just to ask you, what is the. The impact of contract methodology on Change order strategy on the way change order should be handled.
22:57
Speaker 2
Huge question. That's a really great question because one of the things we're finding now is a lot of owners are leaning to obviously we all know the different kinds of contracts GMP or lump sum bid contract. So one of the things we notice or observe is a lot of owners find the GMP contract delivery method very enticing. Right. One, because it gives them shifts most of the risks to the contractor. Right. It benefits the owner because the project could come in at a cost lower than the guaranteed maximum price and there's opportunity for cost savings, etc. Shared savings with the contractor, unlike the lump sum cost which is just a fixed cost. Right. And there's very little flexibility there. So the reason I bring that up is first of all, it's important to identify the differences in these types of construction. Right?
23:53
Speaker 2
There's a flat fee for the owner based on percentage or whether it's a dollar value. Right. That's on the GMPS portion. Right. So. So with the gmp, the schedule of values that are each item in each schedule of values are either negotiated or. Or the GMP is negotiated based on a total cost. Right. And with a gmp, part of the additional cost or a total package for is actual cost. Direct cost plus the direct actual direct cost plus the indirects plus contingency. Right?
24:28
Speaker 1
Right.
24:29
Speaker 2
One of the things where the issues arise with change orders and the GMP is I guess the misconstrued understanding of what the contingency is used for as well as what the change orders, or rather change orders are and what allowances are. Right. So a lot of times what we see is the contractor. Right. Picks you with is very easy to issue a change order and what really what that means is a change to the construction cost or schedule, Right? Right. Total budget, which ultimately affects either adds to the cost of the GMP or adds to the time delivery. Right. So in other words, with a GMP type of construction contract. Right. Part of the challenges, some of the things we see is just a misunderstanding between what really the use of contingency and the use of allowances. Right.
25:24
Speaker 2
And another key factor in this whole picture, I know we've been talking about the owner, the subcontractor and the GC itself. But one key member that we haven't mentioned is the designers. In a GMP type of contract, which is ame in this case, there needs to be clear understanding a definition of missing gaps. Yeah, right. Missing gaps in the contract or in the. You Know, a lot of GMPs are either based on documents that are designed to a certain point and the contractor picks it up from there, tries to fill in the blanks. The contingency is used for the, is controlled by the contractor. Right. However, is used for supposedly missing blanks or missing items within the gmp.
26:11
Speaker 2
So in other words, the contractor, or rather the owner and the contractor could decide, well, we're going to have a 10% or 5% whatever percentage it is for missing items within the scope. Change orders are a little bit different. Right. Because it could be, I mean, change orders either arise from unforeseen, you know, circumstances only requested changes that are not necessarily clearly defined. Right. The contractor, I mean, the owner could decide, okay, by the way, I would like to have, you know, rather than four story, I wanted a five story. That's not part of the contract.
26:45
Speaker 1
Right? Clearly.
26:46
Speaker 2
Yeah, clearly. Right. So that is just the dynamics between that understanding the use of each of these specific contract clauses. Items that would help eliminate the issues that typically will face in a GMP versus a lump sum. A lump sum is easier. The fixed cost, anything that is added as a change order. Allowances are different. Allowances are set together alongside the A and E. Right. For missing scope. I think I gave an example the other day to one of my clients saying, say, for example, you know, there's a, you know, in the design, say schematic or D, the bid documents that were the basis of the gmp, there is a room or there are a bunch of rooms that, you know, they're supposed to be lit. Right.
27:35
Speaker 2
If those things are not necessarily shown on the documents, there needs to be a clear definition of those things by the D and E to say, look, by the way, this is missing. And the constructor's responsibility to also either exclude it from their GMP or include it Right. In their contract. Right. So it's a fine dynamic kind of understanding all of that, you know, so.
27:56
Speaker 1
So I, and we're, we need to be transitioning. But I, I have to. This is such an interesting topic.
28:03
Speaker 2
It really is for me.
28:04
Speaker 1
And I. What I see so often is that I'm a big fan of the GMP model delivery contract method for a bunch of different reasons. I think that it gives the owner good transparency. I think that it does have the benefit of the shifting of risk, which I think is actually probably appropriate in most cases. But where I see it go wrong is where owners want to have their cake and eat it too.
28:36
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
28:37
Speaker 1
And, and they. Right. And so they conduct this really fast paced, you know, going from design to construction in a real fast paced fashion. And then on top of it, they do a competitive GMP where general contractors aren't selected based on general conditions and fees and qualifications, but instead they're selected off of who can come back to them with the lowest price, which is just begging for massive gaps.
29:04
Speaker 2
Y. Yeah.
29:04
Speaker 3
In, in.
29:05
Speaker 1
In the budget. And so for me, and I wonder what your opinion is on this, but for me, the gmp, the appropriate usage of a GMP should be really limited to those situations where it's gen. General conditions plus fee and qualifications. We select our construction manager general contractor and we work with, we allow them and you know, in conjunction with the design team to close gaps with the subcontractors and arrive at a really responsible gmp. What's your thought?
29:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, that is a great comment because part of the, you know, like I mentioned earlier, owners lean towards the GMP because of the benefit they appear to get for themselves. They perceive a little bit selfish, which is a little bit selfish. I, I hate to say that, but it's a vehicle that grants them the opportunity to do that. So which, you know, our recommendation is always to be fair. Right. It's never always the lowest bidder. Right. It's. I mean, it's never always the lowest bidder.
30:07
Speaker 1
Right.
30:07
Speaker 2
In most cases, you know, in some cases it is. So it should be based on qualification. It should be based on the things you mentioned, the negotiated general conditions, negotiated fee, as well as understanding of the project, the contract, construction contract. Right. So, you know, I see Stacy just joined us back.
30:28
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's where the bells ring and their bells ring. And IO you and I could go on this for another hour. And you know what? We probably should, you know, have you back on at some point in the future and dive deeper into, you know, all of the different, you know, most responsible best practices for creating an environment that is, you know, low on change orders and low on change order drama. Yeah, I think you have a lot to add there. And you know, thank you so much for, you know, adding all that. So, Stacy, I want to, you know, look, we're going to go over today. It just is what it is. So it's our last episode of the season. We're throwing all the rules out. Stacy, what are some of the questions that we have here?
31:17
Speaker 3
We just got a lot of great comments. Matt and Dennis brought up workflow efficiency and trying to get your customer to value that and the supply chain constraints. I don't know if you have any comments that can contribute to that on how to get the customer to put more value on all the supply chain demands now.
31:44
Speaker 2
Yeah, so that is actually quite key. So the comments. You know, I remember when we began this discussion, part of our recommendations was to establish some kind of process for things like material. So like everyone knows no one could have predicted the past two years. Right. So it's a unique situation. So our recommendation always to owners is to be fair, right. To be fair to the contractor and their subs. Especially in this unique situation that we have with, you know, delayed delivery. I mean there's a particular contract that or a project that we're aware of that the progress schedule had to be bumped up one because of the delays and you know, the, I guess supply chain issues now. So it's a fine, it's a balance. The owners are. Recommendation or advice owners need to be flexible and realize that things arise. Right.
32:45
Speaker 2
And also everything is based on relationship and openness. Right. It's important that parties, all parties in the, involved from the designers to the subcontractors to the, you know, contractor and owners be fair, open and have a good relationship. That makes the, I guess the process a little bit smoother.
33:11
Speaker 1
I think, I think the importance of being fair minded.
33:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, fairness.
33:21
Speaker 1
And, and that is not always the thing that makes you the most money.
33:27
Speaker 2
Right.
33:29
Speaker 1
But there's a term that I love which is, you know, long term greedy. And what long term greedy means is that you're doing the things that will make you more successful in the long run. And I think, you know, being fair today is a long term greedy move. That the long term value of being fair today far outweighs the short term benefit of the money you stand to put on this project.
34:03
Speaker 2
Correct?
34:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Any other questions that you have Stacy, or anything else from the group Mark Jury?
34:12
Speaker 3
If change order pricing is based on receipts, then submission of pricing is after the fact as far as execution, which makes them all proceed with pricing to follow. Does that in turn mean if material prices escalate from the pricing at bid time, the owner will issue change orders for escalation and pay additional costs based on invoices.
34:37
Speaker 2
So that's a good question Mark. And the simple answer to that is yes. If the pricing for. I mean it's, it all depends on the, I guess when the change was Issued to when, you know, it's the duty of the contractor, once the changes process and agreed to by the team, you know, that they proceed to making any kind of procurement. Right. And not wait on it. I'm not sure if that's really Mark's question. You know, however, if there is a. As an example, price of steel went up the past. What. It's crazy now. Right. So the subcontractor is entitled to, in some cases or most cases, entitled to request from the owner. Right. What would I call it? Additional cost to cover that. That's what.
35:40
Speaker 1
Right, the escalation.
35:41
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, the escalation for that. So, you know, it's. Those are part of construction. The construction. The construction issues that rarely happen, but we've seen them happen. So. Yes, Mark. So the owner should pay for it. And there are ways to I guess kind of go around that.
36:01
Speaker 1
I, I think this is, it's. It's a question that so many people are afraid to ask. Yeah. And you know, a lot of assumptions are made that they won't be, you know, in any way sort of supported or made whole. And, and I. I found, as you've said, IO, that. That, you know, just an open conversation about it typically leads to some problem solving together.
36:29
Speaker 2
Yeah. The caveat there is it also the. The contractor is also needs to be responsible. Right. Enough to make sure that they, you know, do the due diligence. Right. Not waiting to the last minute to order things, you know, and you know, waiting to, you know. You understand what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
36:50
Speaker 1
All right, good. Anything else, Daisy?
36:54
Speaker 3
Just a lot of great comments on here. So when you get a chance, you know, feel free to connect with IO and we can talk about what we have in store for our second season and what we're looking for.
37:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, that sounds awesome. So though, I just have to call out that, you know, Mark, who. Who's clearly one of the smartest people that joins us every week. But Mark just posted, he's basically a walking billboard for ipd and I'd love to have a discussion. I'd love to have a discussion with you, IO, about the feasibility of more and more design, build and taking that extra step of IPD in terms of project delivery and the impact that might have from your perspective, if you've ever been involved in a project like that, all those types of things. So. But, but different topic, different day, my friend. Thank you so much for joining. I think Stacy and I are going to spend a few minutes here just kind of teeing up, you know, next season and setting some expectations with the group.
37:57
Speaker 1
So I'll let you go. But before we do, is there anything you'd like to say? IO.
38:02
Speaker 2
Again, it's. It's a pleasure to be a part of this platform. I have listened to a few of them and really benefited from it. And, and thanks again for the opportunity and hope to talk to you soon.
38:15
Speaker 1
It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for giving back.
38:17
Speaker 2
All right.
38:19
Speaker 1
It's, you know, giving of your time and your knowledge is. I mean, that's what this platform's here for. So thank you for your generosity in that way.
38:28
Speaker 2
All right, Cheers.
38:29
Speaker 3
Thank you.
38:32
Speaker 1
So, Stacy, let's talk a little bit about what's coming up. I think first things first, just expectation wise, we are, we're going to be taking off all of February, all of March in terms of this show. It's not gone away. So please, you know, don't let your habit go away. Take the whole time over the past two months to re watch every episode and send me clips of when we look like idiots. So you're like, don't miss an opportunity to make fun of us is I guess all I'm trying to say. And so during that time, Stacy and I are going to be doing some things to reload, including making some modifications to how we're doing our marketing. We're hoping to drive even more people to join us every week.
39:15
Speaker 1
Even though that's been, you know, steadily increasing, we believe that there's more room to go and we want to spread the word further. So we're going to be doing some of that stuff. Stacy, we talked about doing some polls. Can you kind of prepare the group for what's coming on that front?
39:31
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm going to post a poll just to make sure that we're, you know, looking in the right mindset of the people that actually come on and want to join us live to make sure the time is right for you. Obviously, we can't accommodate everyone, but we would like to accommodate the majority of you. So we will do a poll whether we're going to keep it at 8 or move it up a little bit so we can include our west coast people that wanted to join. So look out for that and please participate. And then we also have a ton of great topics and guest speakers lined up for season two. But I just wanted to. Can we throw some of those topics?
40:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. I'm particularly excited about topics about safety, culture, and we're going to be talking about how companies are establishing healthy and not toxic safety cultures and what they're doing there. I can't wait to talk about more technological advances like 3D printing and virtual training and cybersecurity and things along those lines. What else do we have, Stacy?
40:43
Speaker 3
We're looking for someone who's a modular guru. We want to have discussions on inclusion generations in the workplace, something by developers.
40:55
Speaker 1
Yeah, we want to have a developer on and probably talk about the biggest shifts over the past two years and how their world has changed. And we just believe that the more we understand everybody's perspective, the better we're all able to serve each other. So we want to bring on a developer to talk about that. Along those lines, we also want to bring someone on from the design community to discuss the quality of construction documents right now and, you know, sort of the impacts on, you know, what's driving the quality of construction documents. So some of these topics. We have speakers lined up for some of these topics. We don't. We're considering putting together some panels so that we may have some shows with multiple guests.
41:46
Speaker 1
So I think what Stacy and I are saying is, please reach out to us if you or anyone you know, would be somebody who could add value and who would be interested and willing to give back on our platform.
42:01
Speaker 3
Yep.
42:02
Speaker 1
Awesome. All right, Stacy, I'm going to miss you. Wait, no, I know.
42:06
Speaker 3
Two months now. We'll be talking all the time.
42:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, that.
42:09
Speaker 1
That'll be happening. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, Stacy, for. For, you know, making this happen.
42:17
Speaker 2
Right.
42:17
Speaker 1
Really, I do all the work. Well, the hard part, it doesn't feel that way to me. This is the fun part. This is the part I love. But your. If it weren't for your suggestion and then your eventual insistence, there's no way. There's no way I'd have done this. And it has been an extremely rewarding, you know, process and something that I look forward to continuing with you. You. So thank you.
42:43
Speaker 2
Awesome.
42:44
Speaker 3
You're welcome.
42:45
Speaker 1
All right, see everybody soon.
42:48
Speaker 3
See ya.
42:48
Speaker 1
Bye.
42:49
Speaker 2
Bye.
