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Chad and Matt dive right into the question of the day: Why is growth necessary for construction companies? Growth means many different things, and they start by clarifying that growth doesn’t always mean higher revenues—sometimes, it means developing process and adding stability. Meanwhile, other times, it has everything to do with increasing revenue and profits. Either way, central to the need for growth is the fact that great people want to have something to strive toward; with grow comes opportunity. In the X vs. Y section, Matt and Chad argue about whether you should show your team your org. chart. We hope you enjoy and learn how to grow your business effectively through this month’s episode. Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are released on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or LinkedIn. If you’re looking for more ways to engage with the wider construction community, check out our affiliate podcast, The Morning Huddle Construction Show, hosted by Chad Prinkey, Well Built Construction Consulting and Stacey Holsinger from Steel Toe Communications. Tune in every Tuesday morning at 9 A.M. EST on LinkedIn Live for discussions with A/E/C experts, advancing the construction community. 0:00 What is the "Well-Built" series? 2:00 Check-Ins! 8:55 How do you get started into creating growth for the long term? 16:15 Why is it important to maintain growth? 20:46 How does revenue growth tie into growth for other parts of the business? 28:30 Should we share our future organization chart with our staff? 39:05 What are we reading and what are our biggest takeaways? 42:25: Check us out at Well-Built Consulting.com! Thank you to our sponsors! Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=... Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit: http://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/ Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/82318299/admin/dashboard/ Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/Ro2QrVt/Themorninghuddlepodcast?__cf_chl_tk=9S8PSaN6zCOUNBhPtHXE.qk8HWtzxNNluBDlsEYhZkg-1726511898-0.0.1.1-8361

In this episode, Michael Fortinberry, co-founder and COO of Protiv, discusses whether it's time to rethink the hourly pay system in the construction industry. Together, we'll explore innovative compensation models to boost productivity and efficiency, offering valuable insights for those looking to improve workforce performance through new pay structures. 6:28 Guest Intro: Michael Fortinberry Protiv.com 7:30 Close the Gap Between In-Person and Zoom Calls 11:08 Performance Models 12:06 Innovating Compensation 14:17 Shaping Company Culture: Numbers Based 17:07 Who are you when you are at your best? 18:42 How well do you know your people? 20:06 Merit Based Compensation Structures 22:09 Connecting Labor Budget: Getting Your Crew to Understand the Goals 23:18 Stop with the 1099s. 24:42 Incentives and Bonus Structures 25:59 Goals for Incentive Programs 26:28 Transparency 27:30 Creating New Ideas to Get the Job Done 29:40 How the Software Works 37:50 Case Studies and Examples 41:00 How Bonus Structures are Paid Out Thank You to Our Sponsors: Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=... Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit https://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/about Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates. https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/s...

In this episode, we’re joined by Scott Arias, CEO of ACE Consulting, and guest host Tom Hughes, VP of Construction Operations at Genesis AEC, to tackle the vital topic of construction scheduling. Scott breaks down the essentials of time impact analysis (TIA), explains the importance of "frag nets," and dives into how the critical path influences scheduling. With real-world examples and actionable advice, Scott makes it easy to understand how accurate scheduling drives productivity and protects your business. 6:57 Introduction Scott Arias 8:25 What is Time Impact Analysis? 12:00 When to Submit Change Order for a Contract Extension 12:45 Example of Contract Extension 14:56 Retrospective Claim Analysis 16:52 As-Built Schedule 17:12 Modeling Perspective: Design Change 18:20 Firm Impact of Overall Project 21:15 What is a “Frag Net?” 23:10 Who has the financial impact and owns the responsibility? 25:19 Need a Basic Understanding to Negotiate a Change Order 28:35 Keep Proper Project Documentation 30:16 A Dozer Costs Money if Its Sitting 34:13 AI Impacting Scheduling 33:30 Tools Used for Time Impact Analysis 36:36 Concept of 3D 37:39 Integration between Primavera and Procore 40:45 Baseline the Schedule 43:40 The Navy Used the Critical Path Method to Construct Submarines 45:30 Marking Up the Schedule Thank You to Our Sponsors: Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=... Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit https://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/about Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates. https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/s...

Whether you are a minority contractor or not, this episode delves into what new opportunities exist within the electric vehicle industry and infrastructure. Specifically, our guest, Larry Bullock from the US Minority Contractors Association discusses how minority contractors can capitalize on the growing EV industry, and what partnership opportunities may exist for non-minority contractors. 00:46 The Morning Huddle Construction Show Sponsors 2:12 Catching Up with Stacey and Chad, Return of the Show Season 7, Episode 1. 4:00 Well Built- Chad's New Book 6:42 Steel Toe Communications discusses launch of Instagram and TikTok @CHAT_CTE 7:35 Introduction of Guest, Larry Bullock 12:57 The Economic Boom of the Transportation Industry. 15:10: 1/3 of where we need to be in fulfilling the 500,000 Station Promise, and half way through funding. Lots of opportunity. 15:53 The Joint Office for Energy and Transportation, www.driveelectric.gov/contact 17:12 Justice40: Goal is 40% of every dollar spent under the $5B operation should be spent in disadvantaged communities. 23:50 Which Non-MBE firms are partners with MBE firms. 28:00 Become Bid Ready 30:58 What kind of trades will be involved in installing and maintaining EV. 33:41 17 Electric Car Business Ideas: You Get in Where You Fit In 46:49 Closing Thank You to our Sponsors: Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=ntl&utm_content=resilience&utm_campaign=ntl-brand-awareness-mma&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3P-2BhAEEiwA3yPhwBStkU82B0UALO_Ro1GKvn_sfhRJaY7TaEfwisj92ciDKSpYt52NwhoCPAcQAvD_BwE Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit https://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/about Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates. https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/Ro2QrVt/Themorninghuddlepodcast?__cf_chl_tk=9S8PSaN6zCOUNBhPtHXE.qk8HWtzxNNluBDlsEYhZkg-1726511898-0.0.1.1-8361

Making money on every project is essential for a construction company’s success. That said, the profit motive can sometimes get in the way of building strong, lasting client relationships. In this episode, Matt and Chad help us to strike the balance between profit and relationships. Also, a great conversation about the right timing to hire a Business Development Manager. If you enjoy this content, consider subscribing, and for those looking for more, you can visit our website at https://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/. Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are released on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or LinkedIn. If you’re looking for more ways to engage with the wider construction community, check out our affiliate podcast, The Morning Huddle Construction Show, hosted by Chad Prinkey, Well Built Construction Consulting and Stacey Holsinger from Steel Toe Communications. Tune in every Tuesday morning at 9 A.M. EST on LinkedIn Live for discussions with A/E/C experts, advancing the construction community. 0:00 What is the "Well-Built" series? 2:53 Check-Ins! 6:11 Do you put client relationships before profit? 15:59 How do you maintain your relationships with customers? 32:28 What simple rules do contractors need to follow when considering if they should put relationships before profit? 36:20 Should you hire a business development manager? 56:05 Where do you see a business manager's role ending in the sales process? 1:01:18 What are we reading and what are our biggest takeaways? 1:11:30 Thanks for joining us! See you next time! Thank you to our sponsors! Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=... Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit: http://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/ Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/82318299/admin/dashboard/ Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/Ro2QrVt/Themorninghuddlepodcast?__cf_chl_tk=9S8PSaN6zCOUNBhPtHXE.qk8HWtzxNNluBDlsEYhZkg-1726511898-0.0.1.1-8361

Has this happened to you? A high-potential employee with a bright future shows up one day and tells you, “Sorry, but I got a job offer for more money. I’m leaving.” If you’re like most contractors, the answer is a resounding YES! In this episode, Chad and Matt discuss if and when employees really do leave for money, and what other hidden factors are at play. Here’s a hint: it often comes down to leadership and culture! You will walk away from this episode with some tools to better retain great people, and be a company where people want to work. After that, the guys debate whether it’s feasible to hire executives from outside, or if you need to promote from within. Let us know who you think won the debate in the comments!

Construction company owners are often highly capable sellers and doers. They built their business from scratch to where it is today for a reason! This all works fine until one day, they wake up and realize they've created a time-eating, stress-producing monster with themselves at the center. What they need is a team of trusted leaders inside their business to help them take control and reduce the pressure on a single owner. They need an executive team. In this episode, Chad and Matt talk about how and why owners should create an executive team. Also, they fight about work-from-home arrangements in the construction industry in our XvY segment. Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are released on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or LinkedIn. If you’re looking for more ways to engage with the wider construction community, check out our affiliate podcast, The Morning Huddle Construction Show, hosted by Chad Prinkey, Well Built Construction Consulting and Stacey Holsinger from Steel Toe Communications. Tune in every Tuesday morning at 9 A.M. EST on LinkedIn Live for discussions with A/E/C experts, advancing the construction community. 0:00 What is the "Well Built Series?" 3:00 Check-ins! 3:57 What is the "Well Built" book? 6:18 What was Chad's inspiration for writing "Well Built?" 12:57 Why do we build executive teams? 23:05 What is an executive team? 26:37 What is the difference between a management team and an executive team? 32:54 How do you go about setting up your executive team? 35:23 Where do you start when choosing your executive team? 47:25 Home vs Hybrid workplace 57:33 How do we create a positive work environment? 59:40 Can working from home in the construction industry be successful? 1:01:25 What are we reading and what are the biggest takeaways? Thank you to our sponsors! Well Built Construction Consulting https://www.wellbuiltconsulting.com/ Steel Toe Communications (Digital Marketing for Contractors) https://www.steeltoecommunications.com/ Katz Abosch (Tax, Audits and Accounting) https://www.katzabosch.com/ Lawrence Law (Legal Challenges for Contractors) https://lawrencelawllc.com/ Sandy Spring Bank https://www.sandyspringbank.com/ Genesis AEC (Full Service Architecture, Engineering, Construction in Life Sciences) https://www.genesisaec.com/ Marsh McLennan Agency https://www.marshmma.com/?utm_source=... Construction Links Network: https://constructionlinks.ca/ For additional episodes and information visit: http://www.themorninghuddleconstructionshow.com/ Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/82318299/admin/dashboard/ Subscribe to our weekly e-newsletter for the latest updates: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/Ro2QrVt/Themorninghuddlepodcast?__cf_chl_tk=9S8PSaN6zCOUNBhPtHXE.qk8HWtzxNNluBDlsEYhZkg-1726511898-0.0.1.1-8361

AI and automation are reshaping the construction landscape. Technology enhances efficiency, safety, and cost-effectiveness by optimizing equipment usage, predicting maintenance needs, and streamlining processes. Companies that stay at the forefront of technological advancements position themselves strategically, ensuring they are well-prepared to address the evolving needs of future owners. Tune in to this engaging conversation with Adam Stark, CEO of Jet.Build, where we discuss how a top-down approach driven by construction owners, combined with contractor readiness, can shape the future of sustainable construction.

Join us on The Morning Huddle as Jeremie Harrison, Senior Project Manager at Leebcor Services, LLC, and guest host Tom Hughes, Vice President of Genesis AEC, delve into the pressing need for proficient Project Managers (PMs) in construction. Discover how the Project Management Professional (PMP) program provides a transformative solution, equipping PMs with vital expertise in contract language, project scheduling, and construction sequencing. Tune in to explore the impact of skilled PMs on project completion, efficiency, and innovation in the industry.

Join The Morning Huddle for an insightful conversation with Jennifer Todd, President of LMS General Contractors, as she explores the nuances of unconscious bias and its impact on the construction industry. Drawing from her experiences, Jennifer reveals how these underlying attitudes shape the industry, potentially impeding efforts toward inclusivity and diversity. Discover strategies for cultivating a more equitable future in construction as Jennifer uncovers the effects of unconscious bias and shares her insights.

In this episode, Pat McGettigan, Vice President of Excellerate Manufacturing, joins us to share his unique insights into modular construction. From UPS data centers to driving innovation in off-site manufacturing, Pat's expertise sheds light on the pivotal role of modular solutions amid labor shortages. Throughout the discussion our guest host, Tom Hughes, Vice President of Genesis AEC, also shares his valuable knowledge, enriching the conversation on the convergence of manufacturing and construction.

In this episode, join Chuck Rakich, Superintendent Safety Manager at Henley Construction Co., Inc., as he reveals the keys to running projects that meet OSHA standards and cultivate a culture of safety excellence. Chuck passionately emphasizes the transformative power of viewing OSHA inspections as collaborative partnerships rather than dreaded encounters. Tune in as Chuck shares invaluable strategies for establishing a robust safety culture from the highest echelons of management down to the frontline workers, setting your job sites up for unparalleled success. Don't miss out on this episode packed with essential insights that will empower you to navigate OSHA inspections seamlessly and turn them into catalysts for improvement and collaboration.

In this episode, we'll debunk myths around government contracting, navigate the challenges of transitioning from commercial to government work, and uncover hidden opportunities in this dynamic sector. The stories and insight provided by Eric Coffie, founder of Govcon Giants, promise a thought-provoking journey into the world of government contracts. Join us for an enlightening conversation that might reshape your business strategies!

In this episode, we explore the evolving landscape of social media strategies and transformative tactics in the commercial contracting sector. We'll examine the strategic collaboration where marketing, sales, and business development should converge, making "collaboration" a vital force in content creation. Our guests, Matt Graves, founder of Construction Yeti, and Jonathan Cor, founder of Customer Growth, share unique insights and uncover out-of-the-box approaches for securing optimal coverage and selecting the most impactful social channels. Join the conversation as we dive into innovative strategies to up your game in the competitive commercial contracting world.

In this episode of The Morning Huddle, explore the role of schedulers, debunk misconceptions, and delve into the necessity of schedules for all projects. Gain insights into software preferences, critical paths, and the complexities of delayed claims. Discover the evolving trend of a proactive scheduling model focused on efficiency, execution, and the challenges subcontractors face with CPM schedules. Uncover the value of a two-week look ahead and pull planning in this concise discussion on construction scheduling intricacies.

In this episode, we dive into the captivating world of Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) with our guest, Ben Nichols, President of Harkins Builders, Inc. With over two decades of experience, Ben sheds light on the inner workings of Harkins' ESOP, dispelling myths and highlighting its role as a robust accountability and culture-shaping tool in the construction industry. We explore the tax benefits, recruitment strategies, and value-maximization tactics employed by Harkins, showcasing how being an ESOP isn't just a retirement plan but a key to empowering employees and building lasting wealth. Tune in for an engaging conversation as Ben passionately advocates for broader adoption of the ESOP model and shares Harkins Builders' success story beyond traditional retirement planning.

In this episode, we delve into the fascinating dynamic of semi-rivalry and discord between contractors and engineers. Join us as we explore each profession's crucial roles, uncover the valuable lessons they can glean from one another, and discover how they can unite to drive success as a cohesive team. Our guest, Sol Rosenbaum, owner of SR Engineering and Consulting, is a seasoned mechanical engineer who supports due diligence firms and building owners in the CRE world. The founder of Sol, sets an excellent example for younger engineers by inspiring them through mentorship. Join us as Sol lends his insights to this insightful discussion.

With over 20 years of experience and certifications across multiple trades, Jason Blackwell was in a wreck that changed the trajectory of his life. Approached with the opportunity to teach, Jason found ways to inspire and support his students through his CTE program. In 2022, as the high school industrial maintenance teacher at Escambia Career Readiness Center in Brewton, Alabama, Jason was named a grand prize winner of the 2022 Harbor Freight Tools for Schools Prize for Teaching Excellence, winning $30,000 for himself and $70,000 for his program. That then led to his current role with the Alabama State Department of Education and dreams of running for Governor. Join us to uncover what it takes to master craft training in and out of the classroom.

Great leaders are formed through their experiences. From the interactions they have with bosses, colleagues, and mentors to the education they receive from books and classes, our construction leaders are a product of the development they’ve received. In this episode, Vice President of Construction at Foulger-Pratt, Brett Harton, joins us to share his own leadership development journey and advice for current and future leaders alike on how we can build a better leadership culture in the industry.

For any business, cash is crucial to health and success. Employees and vendors must be paid, or the whole thing comes to a halt. Contractors, in particular those who must purchase materials for installation, face a high-risk environment dependent on their customers’ timely pay. Scott Peper from Mobilization Funding has a front-row seat to the unique cashflow challenges faced by contractors, and he joins The Morning Huddle to discuss the topic and share strategies for maintaining a healthy cash position.

Most construction companies recognize opportunities to improve their business. Few have a track record of capitalizing on those opportunities and driving positive change. In the fast-paced environment of designing and building, companies become accustomed to their problems and focus on getting their work done instead.

In a first for The Morning Huddle, host Chad Prinkey will become a guest and share his experience driving organizational change as a consultant for the construction industry over the past 15 years. We’ll discuss why companies get stuck and what employees and executives can do to get better today.

America's top-performing contractors in every field have certain things in common. One of those things is a strong culture that allows them to maintain consistent results for customers and employees as they grow. Few contractors have done this more effectively than Ruppert Landscape. With over 2,000 employees across 8 states (and rapidly growing!), Ruppert has built a culture of success.

Our guest, Phil Key, is the President of Ruppert Landscape. He joins us to discuss how Ruppert has built and maintained their culture and why it has worked so far!

New construction laws are passed virtually every session, leading to challenges and opportunities for contractors to navigate. Join us and our guest, construction attorney Jackson Nichols to discuss the 2023 construction legal landscape so you can learn about the legal changes that may impact your business.

Many construction Project Managers have never received an education in their craft. Finding the time to travel to a training facility and sit for hours can be challenging for the average PM. We have so much going on and limited time, but quality professional development creates efficiency and reduces stress. In short, it is always worth investing time in training that will elevate your performance.

Join me, Stacey, and our guest Jim Rogers, a LinkedIn [In]structor who dedicates his time to delivering top-quality, easy-to-attend, online training programs for construction professionals right here on LinkedIn.

Virtual design and construction (VDC) as a tool for building better spaces is quickly becoming the norm, but our guest for The Morning Huddle's 47th episode, Darren Young, believes in taking things a step further.

What if your VDC efforts were aimed at reducing waste, creating scalable and resilient technical frameworks, increasing data quality, and leveraging opportunities to generate new revenue?

Join us as we discuss aligning proven VDC technology with compelling business goals to build a better future!

$7M in baby boomer businesses will sell by 2030. Many of those will be building contractors. Whether you’re in the market to sell or potentially buy one of these firms, or you simply want to understand the changing ownership landscape of the construction industry, join us for this episode. We have Eric B. Pacifici, Partner with SMB Law with extensive experience with acquisitions joining us for the discussion. He is leading small to mid-sized businesses to get smart about buying and selling in this dynamic market.

Economic uncertainty has become normal for all of us. Contractors who are busy today are just waiting for the music to stop. While nobody can predict economic conditions with certainty, smart companies pay attention to the trends and plan accordingly. Nobody may be better at reading the tea leaves for the construction economy than our guest, Anirban Basu.

Anirban joins The Morning Huddle a second time for a fun and enlightening discussion about the latest economic trends impacting the construction industry.

Every contractor needs an accountant, but certain relationships have the potential to become trusted advisors. As a contractor, you may want to be asking more of your accounting provider. Tim was a trusted advisor for several contractors during his time working for an accounting firm. He joins us on The Morning Huddle to share the principles that made his relationships so strong and strategic with his contractor clients, and what contractors can do to find and develop this kind of partnership with their accountant.

Transcript:

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00:11
Speaker 1
All right, it's morning huddle time.

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00:13
Speaker 2
Good morning.

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00:14
Speaker 1
I'm not saying it works. I wish you God speed, Godspeed with all of that. I think that's really nice. You know, I'm not sure what kind of success you're going to have with that today because the world, my friend, has changed.

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00:27
Speaker 2
Right. A lot of American construction workers, they have completely different.

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00:33
Speaker 3
These awards have a huge, like, criteria that you have to fill out and they usually have a community service or community relations portion, you know, the most.

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00:44
Speaker 2
Productive with a high performance value. And, you know, sometimes it's 11 o' clock at night.

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00:51
Speaker 1
Funny, isn't it? Yeah. Not for me.

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00:54
Speaker 3
Not for me.

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00:55
Speaker 1
At 11 o' clock, I am guaranteed to be snoring. So foreign. It is morning huddle time. I'm Chad Prinke. Thank you so much for joining us. I've got, as always, wonderful producer and co host Stacey Holzinger with me here this morning. Stacy, how are you today?

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01:18
Speaker 3
I'm doing great. Good morning, everybody. Welcome, Tim.

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01:23
Speaker 1
Thank you. Yeah. So today we have Tim Klimchock who he and I got an opportunity to meet just I guess what Tim about a year ago, something along those lines about that. Yep, maybe a little less. But in, you know, Tim and I were similar to Stacy and I actually on a similar life journey of having spent a long time working for somebody and being, you know, put in a position to reconsider that and start working for ourselves. And so Tim has been running his own business here for, you know, the past, I don't know, six months or something along those lines. And, and we'll give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about what it is you're doing with that business.

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02:08
Speaker 1
But you know, when Tim and I were connected, it was just one of those things like sharing the wonderful, exciting, scary challenge of being an entrepreneur. So it's, you're in good company here with Stacy and I. We've been, you know, just over the past two years both on the same journey. So Tim spent better part of, I don't know, 10, 12 years or something like that at Stambon Ness, which is an accounting firm in Pennsylvania up and up in York area. He was the director of the AEC Group in that market and before that was an accountant for another firm for 10 years. So 20 plus years of accounting experience. I'll shut up and let you expand on that. Tim, what else would you add? And what are you doing now?

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02:59
Speaker 2
Excuse me. Thanks, Chad. Appreciate it. Appreciate the opportunity to be here today. Yeah, 20, 24 years in public accounting. This is definitely a new experience this tax season that I don't have 450 returns to sign this year. So it's. It's definitely been a little bit of a transition for me, but having a lot of fun. Had a great experience in public accounting. I think it's a great place to have a career. And I think for me it was this next step of just doing a deeper dive with a smaller group of clients and really getting a little more intimate with things as opposed to kind of hitting it with a shotgun approach, really just focusing on working with five to 10 clients at a time and really trying to add value and do some really cool things.

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03:42
Speaker 2
The name of my firm is Collaborative Advisory Group. Like you said, it's been. It's. I've started about four or five months ago, and things are off to a great start and I'm really enjoying a lot of the stuff I'm doing. And, you know, it's been a lot of fun so far.

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03:56
Speaker 1
Well, it's. I'm already benefiting, you know, and my clients are already benefiting from Tim. I've pulled Tim into a couple of different situations. One that we're in the midst of now. Pretty, pretty exciting to, you know, benefit from your experience and. And expertise on the financial front, really as that, you know, small boutique kind of service where, like you said, you can really be, you know, deep in it and. And extremely helpful. So glad that you're a part of it. I'd also be remiss. I have to. I'm seeing them on the chat. Potentially my best friend in the world is. Is. Is with us this morning is Jason Dixon, who has joined. And Jason's actually the reason that we connected and, you know, there's a Penn State connection there that I find a little off putting as a terp. But I'll.

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04:46
Speaker 1
But I'll struggle through. I'll make it.

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04:49
Speaker 2
I've known Jason since I was 16 years old and he was 18, so that was a couple of years ago, to say the least. Yeah.

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04:55
Speaker 1
That's awesome. That's awesome. All right, well, good. So we're going to get in today to talking about something you have a ton of experience in, which is I'm hoping to kind of educate our audience on. You're really the kind of relationship they should be expecting out of their accounting firm. The vast majority of our audience is contractors. There may be some accounting firms and maybe bankers or other professional service providers who also join us on a regular basis or may be joining us specifically for this episode. And they are probably going to have some good ideas for how to be a better service provider based on this discussion. But I'm hoping that contractors take away something that they can, you know, start to a new standard that they can start to aim for when it comes to establishing partnerships with their accounting firm.

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05:41
Speaker 1
So with that, I'm going to dive in. Stacy, as always, master of ceremonies, help us to get some awesome questions in through our, you know, audience this morning and we'll bring you back with about 10 minutes to go and get some audience questions.

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05:56
Speaker 3
Sounds good.

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05:57
Speaker 1
Thanks. See you in a bit. All right, so. So, Tim, let's go. Let's start with a crash course 101. I know this is, you know, maybe even pre 101, but I'm going to ask because I think it helps to set the stage, talk a little bit about just inside a construction company, what their finance and accounting makeup really needs to be and how they, you know, what they're trying to accomplish. Just talk about the goal of that financial silo inside a construction company, like leaving the accounting for a minute. Just what's the goal of the accounting silo or the financial silo inside?

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06:36
Speaker 2
Well, like everything in account, we always joke. Well, it depends and I think a lot of it depends on the size and the complexity of the company. You know, I think there's some differences between general contractors and specialty contractors, for sure. But, you know, a lot of times you're going to see someone in this controller, CFO type role that has the ultimate oversight responsibility of the company's financial operations. My personal definition has always been the controller is more focused on looking at the past and summarizing the past, where a CFO is really more forward looking and looking at the future. However, I do see in my experience a lot of times where that person, you know, again, depending on the size of the company, can't afford both functions or it doesn't make sense to have both that.

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07:21
Speaker 2
That controller slash, cfo, regardless of their title, has the responsibility of doing both of those things. And then to that point, obviously segregation of duties and making sure you have controls in place amongst the different people underneath those folks is important too. A lot of people have somebody separate for billing and then have another person on the payable side. Again, depending on size, somebody might be doing both of those functions. But ideally you want to make sure that there's this segregation of duties, as we say in the accounting world, that, you know, make sure that the checks and balances are in place. And some. There's always somebody reviewing somebody else's work. So. And then when it comes to construction specifically, then someone has to really take ownership of the WIP schedule and job cost and revenue recognition and everything that goes with that.

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08:10
Speaker 2
That's the biggest thing that's unique about contractors is that whip schedule and having a whip schedule that makes sense, that you're tracking your job costs, that you're recognizing revenue and just getting everybody on the same page. And that controller, CFO person really should be the liaison between the project managers and the estimators and ultimately with the owners.

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08:33
Speaker 1
Awesome. I love it. I, I like that idea of the control, pardon me, of the controller being this liaison between the departments tying together the financial picture of the business. So great. I think that's a great picture. Now layer in the 101 level of where the accountant fits into the mix. So do I need to hire an accounting firm or can I, you know, why am I hiring an accounting firm as a contractor and what fundamental role or traditional role am I really looking for that accounting firm to provide?

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09:10
Speaker 2
I think from a traditional perspective, you know, everybody thinks there's really two pieces of the puzzle. You have your financial statement side and you have your tax return side. And as everybody knows, tax returns need to be filed, whether it's for the company and then ultimately for the owners. And a lot of times the CPA firm takes that role of being the tax preparer. And hopefully there's some tax planning involved with that before year end. And then there's the regulatory compliance of filing the returns that you need to, both at the federal level and for most people, multi state level. The financial statement side is really driven by the surety companies and the banks. And there's three types of financial statements.

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09:47
Speaker 2
There's compilations, reviews and audits, depending on, you know, what you're borrowing, depending on what the size of your company is, that's really going to drive the type of financial statement. And it's really three different levels of service that the accounting firm steps into. And think of it as just a verification of your internal numbers and helping you get your numbers in line. And then ultimately we sign off on a report that says that we've either compiled, reviewed, or audited these numbers. And there definitely is different stages and obviously there's different cost levels for all those things as well, based on the amount of effort that, you know, the traditional CPA is going to have in that.

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10:25
Speaker 1
Yep. All right. Good, that totally makes sense. So I look at that as. Tell me if I'm wrong in the way that I'm thinking of this, but I always think of that as kind of the, that's the price of entry for an accounting firm, like. Right. Meaning you better have the ability to handle tax and financial statements perfectly like that. That's the expectation. It's the minimum threshold. And, and you know, in your experience be, you know, obviously you're not in any way, I will say this for you are not in any way talking about your previous employer or throwing anybody under the bus. Right? Like that's not what I'm asking you to do. But what I am asking you is, you know, in your broad and you know, 20 plus year experience as a CPA serving contractors, how many CPAs are failing?

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11:22
Speaker 1
What percentage do you think are failing to meet, you know, that level? That standard of these things have to be tight.

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11:30
Speaker 2
I think, you know, I think they're. And one of the biggest challenges in the business development area for accounting firms is there really are a lot of good construction accounting firms out there, my previous firm included. They're every region, everywhere across the country. There's a lot of CPA firms that pick construction as a niche and you know that they're really focused on it. But then there are some other firms out there perhaps that we used to joke about it as. And construction. So a CPA firm and it's something, you know, for your listeners to think about is, you know, looking at the whole picture of what this CPA firm does in the construction area.

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12:05
Speaker 2
So the end construction thing is you'll see on their website that we do nonprofits, we do manufacturing and governmental stuff, we do distribution, maybe we doctor's practices and construction will be at the end. And it's like, you know, I think that's really where the differentiator can be, is that you avoid those firms that are the end construction. And how do you do that? I think part of it is, you know, making sure that you're looking at the relationship with the cpa. Do you know these people, Are there people at your, whatever trade organizations that you're involved with, whether it's ABC or cfma, you know, not to promote any specific organization. But do you see these people pushing thought leadership out there? Are they, are they going out of their way to, you know, push webinars out there and content?

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12:52
Speaker 2
Are they sending you frequent emails? Hey, this is what's going on specific to your Industry, those sorts of things are the things to really target on. But that, but it is a challenge because there really are, you know, I could sit here and name you 10 to 15 firms, say in the Baltimore region and up here in south central Pennsylvania that I think are good quality firms. I know a lot of people at these firms and there's a lot of people that are doing good work. So that's really where you get into the next part is what extra value add stuff can these people bring to you? Right.

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13:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. So. And that's so. So if I'm hearing you right, the likelihood that one of these highly qualified construction. Construction accounting groups is missing the mark on the cost of entry, on the tax preparation the, the likelihood that one of them is. Is dropping the ball in that area relatively low.

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13:49
Speaker 2
Relatively low. Yeah, I mean there's, yeah, there's certain people obviously can better than others, but I think that there's a lot to choose from in the marketplace. There's some people that dabble in it that shouldn't be dabbling in it because there are some very specific things with construction accounting that are very unique.

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14:04
Speaker 1
You know, let's jump into that for a minute. I'm interested in just it like, you know, what makes construction unique for an accounting firm that would make it something that the. And construction guys maybe shouldn't be dabbling.

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14:19
Speaker 2
I, I think it's totally the whip schedule and folk, you know, the whole. Everything about the whip schedule, whether it's revenue recognition, whether it's cost, you know, accumulation, you know, whether it's, you know, estimating, you know, and everything about project management, you know, the fact that you're not like anybody that would focus on a manufacturing operation, let's say, let's not pick on the manufacturers out there. But, you know, there are certain things that are consistent and very repetitive with manufacturing a product. As we all know, construction is definitely not that way in a lot of respects. So the fact that there's uniqueness, the fact that you're building a unique product every time really takes a lot more oversight.

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14:58
Speaker 2
And just the whole, that you have this system now, project managers and estimators and a bunch of people looking at these things, because it's not exactly the same thing every, you know, every single time. So it's really about, you know, what estimates are you using moving forward, you know, over under billings. And like there's just, you know, a lot of that stuff comes into play, you know, Manufacturer might just be worried about receivables, but we have this unbilled receivable, the under billing that we have to worry about too. So there's just unique things. It's something, you know, I, as we joked about before, I think, you know, I've been doing this for 25 years and I think I know what I'm doing now.

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15:33
Speaker 2
But I think back to different in parts of my career where it's sort of like, wait a minute, like you thought you got it, but it's like, wait a minute. I didn't understand when I first started what this meant.

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15:43
Speaker 1
So yeah, it's, if that doesn't happen, you haven't been growing, you know, but the key is to remain humble today, knowing that 10 years from now you're going to look back and be like, man, I was an idiot. So that's, that is the key, you know, you do your best and you stay humble. So that's extremely helpful. And I think if I get then past the barrier to entry and I think, okay, I'm working with an accounting firm that clearly understands wip, that understands over and under billings, that has the ability to look at my, you know, financial silo and really make not just heads or tails of it, but have the ability to understand the nuances very quickly and add value in the, in that form.

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16:36
Speaker 1
Like if something's not working internally in the way that you're logging or tracking or you know, cost codes or whatever, that your accounting firm would have the ability to pop their head in and say, hey guys, I'm noticing some stuff that needs to be sorted out. And, and if they don't have, if they're and construction guy, they're probably not going to have that. And, but if they have that construction background, they're going to be able to see it quickly, they're going to be.

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17:00
Speaker 2
Able to resolve it.

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17:00
Speaker 1
That's very useful. Let's talk about the value add where so if you've got this group of 10 to 15, you know, in any given region, qualified capable construction accounting firms, how do I pick which one to really use at that point and what, you know, what criteria should I be overlaying to consider who's adding more value?

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17:25
Speaker 2
Well, I think once you get through that initial scrub of saying, okay, these are the qualified contractors, construction CPA firms, then I, I see the next step is really being, okay, what else do they bring to the table like we talked about before, how are they involved in the trade associations that you belong to? Do you know who their other clients are? You know, get an understanding of what other companies are they working with? And, you know, another thing I've had come up on occasion is on a rare occasion it might be they're working with a competitor that you might not appreciate. The fact that your CPA is your direct competitor who maybe you don't get along with is, you know, we don't want to make sure that we're, you know, there's a confidentiality piece to our business. But there is that perception.

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18:10
Speaker 2
If you, if you do too much work with one particular company, there might be, you know, a risk of, you know, that some people are focused on that. Very few, but I have seen that before happen. But, you know, I think it's really about, you know, focusing on those value add things that they can bring to the table in terms of what associations are they involved with? Are they pushing thought leadership out there? What ideas are they bringing to the table? Are they ask, you know, some things I was thinking about or, you know, are they, you know, what would be wrong with asking your CPA asking you to go on a job site visit? Let me see boots on the ground. Let me see your actual process in the field. Let me understand your whole process from estimating to project management.

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18:55
Speaker 2
You know, inviting your CPA potentially to come to a project manager meeting and just sit there as a fly on the wall just to observe, just so that they, because there's only so much that person can do. It's based on what you're telling them ultimately. So it's, you know, them seeing it live and really seeing behind the curtain a little bit really will help add, give them the opportunity to add that extra value, for sure.

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19:20
Speaker 1
Love it. I love it. You know, it's so the. Mike, My business, believe it or not, is not podcasts. I, I, this is for fun. But, you know, in my business as a strategic consultant, I'm sorry to say that I can probably count one hand the number of times that a client has really connected me with their accounting firm or that their accounting firm has reached out to me and said we should really be, you know, on the same page. In the small handful of times that has happened, these are extremely strategically valuable relationships that those people have. Right. Like they're telling me they're giving me insights into the numbers, if that. So if that client hires me to help them to go from 5% net to 12% net over the next, you know, three years.

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20:20
Speaker 1
And that's the focus, is to drive up that net profit. Having a real strategic accountant. I mean, it's like a, it's like an easy button for me figuring out what needs to occur. Because they have such incredible insight into the, the things that are keeping them from being able to get to their goals. And whether it's people or lack of processes or, you know, markets or lack of technologies, all those things. You know, I'm hearing you say, if you have a relationship with an accountant who is willing to climb inside your business and not just stay on the outside, but actually climb inside your business a little bit and understand how you're operating, they have the ability to add so much more value and really be a consultant and an advisor.

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21:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's really about that advisor piece. The fact, like you mentioned the IT side of things, that's another area that can be incredible. And the CPA can play a role in that, too. If you read the trade publications out there's so much technology stuff going on in construction, there's that an owner has to be overwhelmed by, like, where do you even begin? Like, I can only imagine being in your shoes. It's like, okay, what do I invest in? What's not a waste of money you're getting, you know, getting a lot of that comes from the trade associations that, you know, are helping to push some of these things too. But, you know, there's so many ads out there, like, just to weed through that process.

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21:41
Speaker 2
You know, I think the cpa, again, is that trusted advisor can play a role in that if you let them. But again, you have to be willing to open up and show the person what you're looking. Well, this is the help that I need. And if there's a good, caring relationship there. Because that's the other biggest part, too. I'm not saying you have to best friends with your CPA and CPAs. Typical accountants aren't cool people is what most people think. But we can. So it's sort of like, you know, build that relationship, like, understand who. And here's the other part, too, that I didn't mention is I, I, years ago, I, I came up with this idea of just who do you want to meet? You know, I was doing almost 100% of my work for architects, engineers and contractors.

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22:22
Speaker 2
It's been like this for a long time. I'm in a position to make referrals, too. You know, if you have a good CPA and I know you're not thinking of an accountant like this, but, you know, there's opportunities where if you want to meet somebody, maybe I know how to get to that person and can help facilitate an introduction. That's been the part that I've enjoyed.

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22:39
Speaker 1
The second part I would add too.

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22:41
Speaker 2
Is, you know, a CPA that's involved with some of your. If you're a GC that's involved with some of your specialty contractors. One of the things I like about being involved regionally is that I know what's going on about a lot of projects. I know developers, I know the gcs. I know what I hear things of what projects are going where. And a lot of times when you meet with. A lot of times when I'm sitting down with a client for the first time in a while, the coolest part for me was that people would ask, so, Tim, what are you hearing out there? There? Like they, that was the pause and they wanted to hear. And I'm sure you get this too, Chad.

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23:15
Speaker 2
It's sort of like you just have a pulse on things that they don't see because they're so focused and working in their little silo, let's say, for, you know, and they don't get the chance to talk to people sometimes because they're so busy with the office stuff. But you're a guy and I'm a guy that's out there, so they actually like that feedback. What are you hearing from your banker friends? And, you know, what are you hearing? What's going on with legal issues out there, HR issues, all these things. And it's just you have all these resources available to really help people. And a lot of accountants don't want to take that step because it's out of their comfort zone. But a lot of them do.

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23:48
Speaker 2
And those are the ones that you really want to focus on is finding people that can, you know, help. Help make those connections for you.

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23:54
Speaker 1
Makes total sense. So, so I, I'm. I want to provide a quick summary.

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23:58
Speaker 2
And, and I'm, I'll.

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23:59
Speaker 1
I'm going to bring Stacy back because I will have some questions that she'll pose to us here. But quick summary of my takeaways is three categories of value add. The first category is business advisory. That is that your accounting relationship, having a deeper understanding for your unique business, the people in your business and being able to help beyond just a dollars and cents standpoint. But to point it maybe the drivers of the dollars and cents outcomes and give you Some advice and support from a business advisory standpoint. That's number one. Number two is, I would say relationships and, you know, they're being plugged in a complimentary space and having the ability to connect people, bring people who should be collaborating or doing business together, directly pulling those folks together. And, you know, that's probably a relatively rare trait for an accountant.

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25:17
Speaker 1
You know, not that they're not cool, Tim. I think they're cool, but they're not necessarily the most social people in the world, necessarily. Right. Like, there's a. There's a tendency for those, for people who are involved in high detail work to not be socially oriented and external. So that would be. The second category is the relationships they can bring to the table. And then the third category would be market intelligence is that their ability to provide useful data about things that are happening in and around the market. Big projects that might be moving forward, turnover trends and what we're seeing in terms of employees leaving or in terms of materials pricing or in terms of. Right.

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26:08
Speaker 1
All this different type of insight that somebody would be getting from just simply being immersed, plugged into the market gives them the ability to add value from a market intelligence standpoint. So advisory relationships, market intelligence. Add that to your selection criteria for accounting, in addition to ensuring that they have a strong deep construction practice, because if they don't, they're really not going to be able to provide any of these three things in any meaningful way anyway.

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26:41
Speaker 2
Right. So it's a matter of just getting started. You know, set up quarterly meetings with your accountant. Let them come out. Let's, you know, have a conversation with them and just get the ball rolling with this. If it's a new relationship or an existing relationship, it's. I think people just weren't thinking of it in these terms that it's. It's okay to have a conversation and get that. That accountant to open up a little bit, because there's a lot of value there for the people that specialize in this work. It's just a matter of. Sometimes you have to ask them to get the ball rolling a little bit.

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27:11
Speaker 1
That's all. Love it. Love it. Good stuff. All right, Stacy, we probably have a few questions before we have to jump off with Tim today.

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27:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. Eric just posed a question. What's the best way to find one of these unicorn CPAs that are willing to climb into your business with you and have these three things?

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27:32
Speaker 1
Yeah. Is there like a. Is there like a cpa, A unicorn CPA detector that we can.

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27:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love that I use that term unicorn a lot. So I love that. So I think that, you know, if you're not getting that from your existing accountant and you think they're. That that ability is in that person, you should ask them. It's like, okay, this is what I'm looking for this relationship to be. But you know what I had said, I think at the. Be sort of toward the beginning of the presentation here, you know, look for people that. I almost feel like when I was meeting with clients, it's almost like I'm. There's. There's an initial presentation. It's almost like I feel like I'm on a stage when I'm talking with people.

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28:11
Speaker 2
And so that makes me think, you know, anybody who's willing to do a formal presentation for your trade associations, that's someone that's used to sharing and is open, you know, that might be a way to look at it. You know, people that are actually pushing that thought leadership out there and doing presentations, that might be someone that. Again, I, I don't feel like I'm on a stage necessarily when I'm with clients, but I feel like I need to have my thoughts together to present ideas to them when, hey, Tim, what are you seeing out there? That market intelligence stuff. That's me being on when I'm with these people and then, you know, being engaged and dynamic. So that might be one way to find that person. You know, you know, I definitely, I, I.

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28:52
Speaker 2
Not to plug any specific trade organization, but you know, see, with this type of work, CFMA is a big one. Construction Financial Management association, national organization that has local chapters. There's a designation that I have called a ccifp, a Certified Construction Industry Financial Professional. I think that's a good way to find somebody too is focusing on that because there's continuing on top of taking an initial exam to get the certification, there's continuing education requirements that are specific to construction accounting that have to happen that you have to report every three years. So that's another piece of the puzzle too as you're trying to weed those out with looking for somebody that specializes. That's awesome.

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29:36
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a. It's a good litmus test to check real capability set in the industry is if they have a ccifp. I think that's great. I. One of the things I want to piggyback on or build on that I think you hit the nail on the head with was just right at the very outset. Tell these people the criteria, whether it's your existing CPA or whether you're shopping for a cpa, tell them that this is a part of the criteria and that it's a part of the expectation and ask them to demonstrate to you how they have the ability to do that. If they, if they struggle and they're scrambling to try to figure out how to present it to you, they probably aren't strong doing that.

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30:21
Speaker 1
If, if they're able to give you example after story after story and you know, situations, then it really works. It makes me actually think of a long time general contractor client of mine that I remember it was probably 10 years ago or eight years ago. They said to, they conducted a search process and they told their cpa, we're looking for you to be strategic, specifically in the area of relationships. We're looking for a CPA who can make connections and introductions in the developer community. They hired one that said they could do that and a year later they did. They, they went through and they said, look, you didn't do that, you're fired. We're moving on to the next one. And they ended up finding a, a really strong long term partner that way. So that's the other aspect of it.

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31:08
Speaker 1
I know it's uncomfortable, but you have to be willing to make a change. Even though you totally like your accountant and they haven't done anything wrong. The question to your point, Tim, it's like there's a lot of qualified people and that's not going to necessarily be your barrier. It's, you're not going to necessarily struggle to find, you know, strong qualified accounting firms in construction. What you are going to struggle to find are people who are committed to providing this level of service.

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31:37
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah, it makes sense if you think about it that you know, one, when they come in, we have a specific assignment that we have to get through those formal financial statements and tax returns. So it's really easy to focus on the production side of things and getting those deliverables done. It's that extra part that I think just gets lost sometimes. But frankly that's the part, that's the fun part. The part I've realized it isn't doing the financial statements. I mean, I did that for a long time. Tax returns for a long time. The fun part is really building these relationships with people, getting to know them, taking them to lunch, you know, maybe you play golf with them, go to a ball game with them, spend time with these people so that you get the opportunity to really, you know, build that relationship.

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32:18
Speaker 2
And just understand who they are. And then when it is time and you're working your 80th hour of tax season and you have to work another two hours to get something done, there's a different feeling. If you care about that person and that relationships there, it's like, okay, I'm going to find a way to get this done because I know they need this and expect this from me.

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32:35
Speaker 1
I love it. I think that's right, Stacy. I think we could probably squeeze in.

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32:39
Speaker 3
One additional say, with that being said, can you share us or illustrate any ideal relationships or stories with any of your clients?

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32:49
Speaker 2
I, I think, you know, I, I, as I said, finding ways to put people together, that's the part that I've enjoyed. And a lot of, one of the things I'm known for, I guess, is building those relationships and, you know, finding opportunities to put this architect together with this general contractor or putting this engineering firm together with this art. An architect, you know, finding ways to make those connections. And, and the guilty pleasure of this is if I actually go to the lunch and you make the connection, I just sit there, Believe it or not, I talk all the time, but believe it or not, sometimes I actually just sit and listen. And that's again, part of me building my intelligence level and just understanding their industry even better. So that's where, you know, finding opportunities like that, like, that's the cool part.

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33:31
Speaker 2
If you know, the people, when people say thank you because you went out of your way to create business for them, you know, that was part. I wasn't expecting to happen on my CPA accountant journey, but that's been some of the best. Yes, I can save you money. I can help with strategy. We'll save you taxes. Will present things great for the bonding company and the bank for you, all those things, but that's, that should already be a given. What else can you really bring to the table? And really, that's the fun part where you really add value and make and people say thank you. That's been, that's been the best thing for me.

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34:02
Speaker 1
That's awesome.

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34:03
Speaker 2
I love it.

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34:03
Speaker 1
And I think it may be, if you're a professional service provider and you're watching or listening to this episode, one of the takeaways I would have, if I were you, would becoming fascinated by, excited by the idea of being more of a connector. I think to the extent that you do that, you have made yourself irreplaceable as a service provider. Assuming you're providing a really strong tax and financial statements, you know, service, then you have this differentiator that protects you long term. And I'll just quickly ask Tim, in your 25 years, when being a CPA, did you have a pretty good client retention rate? Yeah.

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35:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. I used to joke, I said to a client one time, how hard would it be for you to fire me? And he said it'd be next to impossible because I'd have to tell so many people because you're part of that network. So that's. So if the CPAs out there that are listening, it's like, that would. That'd be my one piece of advice here. It's good for retention here. If you find those extra things in the event something doesn't go right or there's a miscommunication of something, that capital that you're building up with that client, and this can be applicable to the bankers out there and illegal and any other professional service that's servicing the industry. You know, the whole point of this is we're building up capital, but mistakes do happen, and miscommunications do happen.

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35:38
Speaker 2
This is how you build up that capital with people to really, you know, build that relationship so that when those things happen, it can weather that storm that happens once in a while.

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35:47
Speaker 1
Yeah, of course. Yeah. Because we're human and service providers, and in a service business, things happen. So there's.

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35:53
Speaker 2
There's.

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35:53
Speaker 1
There's no doubt. Tim, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for. For joining us for the morning huddle. Do you have any parting words?

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36:02
Speaker 2
No, I think. I think this was great. You know, I appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast. A lot of great topics that you guys have going, and look forward to the next one. Absolutely.

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36:12
Speaker 1
Thanks. Please do. Yeah. Continue to. Continue to spread the word. Join us and we'll, you know, maybe. Maybe episode 84 will bring you back. Or episode 41. Right. Stacy's like, I can't believe we're gonna do more of it. We're going to do that many episodes. Yeah, it's freaking. Yeah, I know. It's all right. Thank you so much, Tim. Stacey, we have a little bit of cleanup to do. Let's talk about next week. So first things first.

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36:40
Speaker 2
Next.

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36:40
Speaker 1
Next week, you tell me Women in Construction Week is not next week. It's the following. Is that right?

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36:46
Speaker 3
Correct. So we're ahead of the head of the game, and we're going to be talking about workwear for women, shoes, clothes, and careers. We have Three guests on next week. So it's kind of like a panel lineup. I actually just bought Juno boots from one of our guests. I have not worn them yet. I'm going to test them out on Friday. I'm going out to a job site. So I'm excited for that. But her shoes are, they're beautiful. So we'll get to talk about all that fun stuff.

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37:17
Speaker 1
I'm psyched. I'll be. This will be a moment. I'm again, you know, we talk about it a lot, but there are these opportunities to learn that I feel so fortunate to have with all these guests that come on, we just get to ask them really cool questions. And I don't know if you notice, I, it's. I literally am filling up pages full of notes for me, you know, when I'm having these conversations. And I look forward to doing that again next week. A three person panel. Women in Construction to ring in Women in Construction Week. A little ahead of schedule, which will be great as always, I think. You know, guys, the mailing list, it continues to grow every week. Please share your email with Stacy H. Steeltocom.com and she will get you set up so that you're receiving a weekly email.

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38:07
Speaker 1
And it's very easy to register as well as follow up with the previous week's episode. If you didn't catch it live. You'll have all the links and all that type of stuff. We stream live on LinkedIn, YouTube and Facebook, but we're also on Apple podcasts, Spotify and of course recorded on YouTube. I continue to hear from people who are listening to us driving down the road. That's how I take in my podcast. So as much as we wish you were here live, you know, please, if you're a listen and driving type of person and this time slot isn't perfect for you, make sure that you find that and tell a friend, please spread the word. We're trying to, we're trying to, you know, make the biggest possible impact in, you know, creating this platform for positive change in the building industry.

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38:56
Speaker 1
Stacy, are we ready to announce a certain. We can, yay, talk about it.

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39:02
Speaker 3
Nawic. So national association of Women in Construction. Chad is going to be. Well, Chad and I will be attending this spring forum. Do you have the date for that?

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39:14
Speaker 1
I do, yeah. It is May 5th and 6th. It's a two day event. May, Friday, May 5th and Saturday, May 6th.

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39:23
Speaker 3
So we're gonna do our first live podcast event with a panel there so we'll get more details of the time and when to tune in and all that fun stuff. But we're excited for that.

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39:35
Speaker 1
That should be sufficiently nerve wracking.

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39:37
Speaker 3
Yeah, we'll see how that goes with the noise and all that stuff.

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39:43
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. But it's going to be, you know what I'm really excited about is to bring attention to NAWAK and to have an opportunity to learn more about what they're doing and spread the word there. I'm actually going to be giving a keynote presentation On Saturday the 6th, first thing in the morning. It's going to be about driving change from within your organization, regardless of your role in an organization and in doing so in a male dominated environment with some sort of, you know, advice for gaining buy in and traction on ideas. So I sincerely hope that if that is something of interest to you will sign up for the NAWIC conference which I believe is going to sell out.

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40:28
Speaker 1
I think they're going to have somewhere around 150 to 200 attendees and you know, early indications are that they will run out of those. So check out nawic. We'll have more information that we'll send out in the newsletter with register registration links and all that type of stuff to help them to spread their word and help our members to take up those seats before they go away. So. All right, that's it, Stacy. I'm gonna stop with the talking and we'll transition into next week. I can't wait to see everybody again soon. Stacey, anything to say before we part?

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41:02
Speaker 3
Nope. I'll see you guys all next week. Have a wonderful day.

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41:06
Speaker 2
Thanks.

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41:06
Speaker 1
See you too.

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When most small to midsized construction companies think about Human Resources, they think of employee handbooks, PTO policies, and managing employee files. When people like Kathy Humm think of HR, they think about how investing in human capital becomes a strategic advantage for a business.

In this episode, we hear about how leading construction companies leverage their HR departments to become better places to work, minimize legal exposure, and increase productivity. Kathy has valuable experience from her time as the HR Director for Harkins Builders for 9 years before starting her new business, NTP HR.

Transcript:

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00:01
Speaker 1
All right, it's morning huddle time. Good morning. I'm not saying it works. I wish you Godspeed with all of that. I think that's really nice. You know, I'm not sure what kind of success you're gonna have with that today because the world, my friend, has changed. Right. A lot of American construction workers, they have different needs.

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00:21
Speaker 2
They have completely different needs.

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00:23
Speaker 3
These awards have a huge, like, criteria that you have to fill out and they usually have a community service portion, you know, the most productive with a high performance value. And you know, sometimes it's 11 o' clock at night.

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00:41
Speaker 1
Funny, isn't that? Yeah, not for me.

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00:44
Speaker 2
Not for me.

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00:45
Speaker 1
At 11 o' clock, I am guaranteed to be snoring.

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00:48
Speaker 3
So.

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00:48
Speaker 1
So. Good morning. It's morning huddle time. I'm Chad Prinke alongside my co host and producer, Stacey Holzinger. Stacey, how are you this morning?

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01:06
Speaker 3
I'm doing great. How are you guys doing?

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01:10
Speaker 2
Doing great.

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01:12
Speaker 1
For me, it's all good. Yeah, we made it through a Thanksgiving. Like everybody, oh my God, I shouldn't even say this out loud. Everybody was sick and I somehow dodged it. Everybody's better and I'm not sick and I don't know, but I'm pretty sure I'm invincible. Folks, I think I made it. I believe it. Yeah. Though I don't know, Thursday to Tuesday, the incubation period is probably not totally over. There's probably, you know, there's some, you know, doctor somewhere like, oh no, he's got symptoms, I can see it. But anyway, so we have our guest and both of our friends, Stacy, Kathy Hum, here with us today. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Kathy owns Notice to Proceed hr.

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01:59
Speaker 1
She just started that business literally months ago after spending years and years in the construction industry working for a wonderful, well respected general contractor in the D.C. baltimore area. And, and I was just noticing like recognizing as were getting started, Kathy, Stacy and myself, all three of us have started our own businesses just in the past couple of years. Go us. That's exciting. So congratulations Kathy. How so far, how's it going?

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02:36
Speaker 2
It's going fantastic. As you mentioned, I've spent over 15 years in the HR space. Nine of the last years that I spend in HR were with Harkins Builders. So built their HR department and decided to break off and start my own consulting. And my goal is to transform the construction space HR from transactional to strategic. So it's been great. I have a tremendous network through Associated Builders and Contractors and from Greater Baltimore to Washington, D.C. and. And it's been fantastic.

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03:21
Speaker 1
Well, you're doing work for me, with me right now for a client, for a shared client, where we're working together and doing a fantastic job so far. So thank you for. For the work that you're doing there. And, you know, I think as a new business owner, it is the scariest thing is, am I going to have any clients? And you've been able to solve that problem very quickly through your network, and I'm very excited for you. So that's. It's a nice place to start from, Kathy.

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03:53
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

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03:56
Speaker 3
So many small subs, you know, need your help, too. We were just talking about, you know, same thing with marketing and hr. A lot of people are multitasking in smaller organizations when there's a level of expertise that's really needed. So you'll be able to help a lot of people.

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04:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. And what I found is that as companies grow, you know, they're just getting by with the transactional HR component, which is, you know, payroll and benefits administration, and then they grow even larger and they realize, okay, I need to recruit top talent, but my retention is low, you know, so you have to come up with some sort of strategy on how are you going to recruit those people and how are you going to retain them, and what does that look like?

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04:50
Speaker 1
Yeah. So. So let's. Let's make this transition into today's topic, clearly, which is we're going to talk about what the mission of your organization, what the mission of your company exists to. To accomplish, which is making that transformation from H in HR from transactional to strategic. Stacy, I'm gonna, you know, obviously put you in the spot that you're. That you're always in each week, which is creating great conversation with all of our audience members who are joining us live. We'll bring you back here with a few minutes left to. To cover the audience questions. Good.

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05:30
Speaker 3
Yep.

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05:30
Speaker 1
See, in a bit, Kathy, you started down that path of describing what transactional HR looks like. And what I picked up from that was sort of. I don't. Maybe compliance items, payroll items, things. Things that are really keeping the ship afloat. Give us, if you wouldn't mind, just sort of the comprehensive list or the best off the top of your head of what transactional HR is. What do you mean exactly when you say transactional hr?

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06:02
Speaker 2
So you're absolutely right. It includes payroll, it includes benefits, administration, any type of, you know, new hire termination, all of those critical transactional duties that a company needs to do. And I mean really the list goes on employee relations, if somebody has an issue or if they have a question and the employees are our customers. So we have to, you know, spend a lot of time and respond promptly to what their needs are, which is important. That's absolutely important.

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06:41
Speaker 1
Well, and that's exactly what I was going to say. What I don't hear you advocating for in any way is saying let's get rid of that stuff. Right. It's now have to occur. It's just that there needs to be a level of HR thinking that's happening at a different level than the day to day critical functions that need to occur to keep the, you know, the ship afloat. Let's now put some definition around what strategic HR looks like. What are some of the things that fall into that bucket? What strategic hr.

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07:15
Speaker 2
So strategic HR is being more forward thinking, not just putting out the fires today, but focusing on what is my 1-3-5-year plan. And you have to have buy in from the executive team. The HR business goals have to align with the strategic goal. So for example, if a business wants to double in size in the next three years, we what's the recruiting strategy to do that? Where are you going to get those candidates? You know, do you have a, you know, a diversity goal that you want to achieve? So how does that tie into your recruiting strategy as well? And I, it's all about being forward thinking and having that buy in from the executive team to be able to think outside of the box and really help that organization grow.

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08:11
Speaker 1
So, so if I can just solidify this recruiting can fall into either a transactional or a strategic bucket. But transactional recruiting looks like post the ad, call the headhunter. It's, it's reaction to we need a pm. We need to bring in somebody in this key position and our HR department reacts. Posts the ad calls a headhunter or any other number of just in time things designed to create a result. Not bad things, but things that are less effective perhaps than they would be if they were a part of a broader plan. So talk to me about what strategic recruiting just as an example might look like in comparison to the two, you know, to the, you know, post the ad, call the headhunter.

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09:14
Speaker 2
Sure. And those things like you mentioned Chad, are really important. But let's break this down a little bit. Is your job description from the 1920s or do you even have a job description?

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09:26
Speaker 1
Are we scrapping together a job description Last minute. I can't just, I can't tell you how I've seen people who are like, I don't know, Chad, do you have a job description? Something that we can help me with that? Yeah, totally.

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09:38
Speaker 2
But, but more specifically about the job description, are you talking about the challenges that this position will focus on? Are you speaking to the candidate? Are you talking about your culture when you write that job description and what it's like a day in the life at X Company? Then you take that a step further and do you have an employee referral plan within your organization? And have you coached your employees with an elevator pitch on how to recruit top talent? You know, you could be at a.

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10:12
Speaker 1
One thing to say, hey, we'll give you 500 bucks if you bring somebody in. It's another thing to give the tools to be successful in doing that.

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10:20
Speaker 2
You could be at a wedding, you could be in the grocery store and you get exceptional service from the, the person at the register and you think, wow, they have the skill sets, the essential skill sets that might be able to fit in our company. We can teach them the technical skills. Then you have to take it even a step further. And where are you going to find these candidates? Are you just parking your posting on LinkedIn and that's it. You have to build some sort of strategy around where we got most of our candidates. Do you typically hire from universities, community colleges, trade schools in construction? The Votech programs at high school are a great, you know, starting point to hire entry level people within the construction space.

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11:13
Speaker 2
And is your company the go to company in those programs that when they think about okay, we want to start placing our students, are they calling you? Are you the first one they're calling? Which means your recruiting strategy is you have to get in the classroom and you have to be present and you have to, you know, do the upfront work to get on that list and be the first go to caller.

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11:36
Speaker 1
Like so many things in life and business, what I'm hearing you say is it's all about making the investments in these areas that have long term benefits. That if I start laying down lines, if I start creating funnels at vocational schools, if I start laying down funnels in community college programs, I'm not going to have a bunch of candidates tomorrow. But what I will have done is help to Solidify my pipeline 3 years, 5 years, 10 years down the line. And that's strategic. And that's, that's exactly what you're talking about is, you know, hey, if you're today, if you're transactional, so be it. You might need to post that ad, you might need to call that headhunter. But today I want you to also make investments that will help you to be more strategic in the future.

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12:32
Speaker 1
It will help you in the future to have a much more effective strategy. And we're just talking about recruiting, not to mention all the other things that could fit into the hr which I look forward to potentially getting to with you today though time is so limited and there's so much to. So I want to ask what are some of the biggest mistakes that contractors are making as it relates to their HR departments? Whether it's general contractors or specialty contractors, what are the biggest mistakes they're making in relation to their HR department?

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13:10
Speaker 2
I would say the investment in hr. You have to invest in HR for it to be successful. So that's number one. And what I mean by that is you have to put the right person in the seat on the bus or develop that team that has both a transactional mindset as well as a strategic mindset. Because the duties are still the duties but you need to be forward thinking in an HR department and an HR role. So I would say the investment in hr. I would also say that HR needs to have a seat at the table. And what I mean by that is the executive team needs to include HR because let's face it, our most valuable asset in the construction space anywhere are our people.

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14:07
Speaker 2
And if we don't have good talent, satisfied employees, we're not going to be the best that we can be in whatever we do. So who has the better pulse, the best pulse on our people? It's the HR department. They, they absolutely have a pulse on the people. And so HR needs to have a seat at the table.

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14:31
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's so the first, the foundational aspect of that I'm hearing from you is really treating HR not as an afterthought, treating hr. Making the appropriate investment in HR leadership is maybe what I'm, is what I'm hearing you say. Does that sound right?

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14:57
Speaker 2
100%. But here's also something about that HR.

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15:05
Speaker 1
People.

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15:07
Speaker 2
That, that lead the department, that work in the department, they have to be able to speak the executive language. They have to be able to sit in those executive meetings. And the two biggest things that executives are focused on are the cost and the risk. And if you can't speak in business language and take the empathy and the touchy feely part of hr, which is important out of that discussion, that's where HR people tend to have trouble in those meetings. You have to be brief, you have to be concise, you have to be prepared, you have to have solutions. Don't come to them with a problem, come to them with solutions. And you have to know your data analytics and be able to present that information so that you're touching on the cost and the risk. That's what they want to hear.

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16:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a two way street. You can't. First, first things first. The executive team has to welcome the HR leadership as an equal, as an equal voice at the table, as somebody that's really going to have impact, that they're going to consider their perspectives. Yeah. The other portion of that equation is HR people need to speak exact. They need to, they need to actually be prepared at that level. And playing at that level requires, you know, bridging the gap between these touchy feely topics like employee satisfaction and tying it to metrics, tying it to measurables, tying those touchy feely topics to real. Measurable business outcomes, costs, risks, returns on investment.

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17:12
Speaker 2
So even speaking about employee satisfaction, you can go into an executive meeting and say, our employees aren't satisfied. What does that mean? Right. What is tell me more? Or you can go in and after you've done, you know, year after year employee satisfaction surveys using the G12, the Gallup 12 questions, which are very simple, you can go in and say, I just want to let you know, this year our Gallup 12 survey, Employee Satisfaction Survey, dipped from 4.8 out of 5 to 4.3. And here are the categories that they dipped in. And here are those scores. And so we really need to focus and unravel this. And I've done a little research and this is what I've discovered. Two very different. You know, you go in and you say, we've got problems. Well, there's no solution there.

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18:14
Speaker 1
Right. Give me hard data and tell me why I should care.

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18:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

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18:19
Speaker 1
It's, it's a, you know, if somebody comes in and has the ability to say, this is a leading indicator that statistically, if we're not above this threshold, we're going to have retention rate issues, we're going to experience attrition. The cost per new hire is X. Right. Here's what it costs when we have a fail within our first three years. If we have to replace somebody, I mean. Yeah. And I can think about the differences. I spend a lot of time in my work with the HR professionals within my Clients, businesses. And there's a massive difference between the quality of conversation that we're able to have in one instance and the other. And without question, there's a connection on who's invited to the table. Yeah. Now at the same time I'm sitting here like, I'm sorry, I'm like thinking about chicken or the egg.

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19:17
Speaker 1
Like, am I a part of this problem? Do I need to make sure that. And I'm sure I am to some extent. And that's, and so it's a valuable discussion to be having with you.

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19:28
Speaker 2
So, but to be honest, where you excel is the strategic plan and the vision of organizations. And that's where it starts. And time and time again, when I ask companies, do you have a strategic plan? Well, kind of sorta or not really. Because the reason I ask that is because when I'm looking at hr, from soup to nuts, the recruiting business plan has to align with the strategic plan. It gives us direction as an HR team.

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20:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I totally agree. Without one, you can't really have the other. And I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to be a very strategic and capable HR professional operating inside a business that doesn't know where the hell it's going. That's got to be excruciating. So you can't have one without the other. I think that's an interesting thought. So let's talk straight talk here for a minute about something that I, I can't help. I, I, I'm really, I'm trying to solve this problem in my mind for the average or sort of typical sized contractor out there that does not have unlimited budget. This is an overhead hire. Right. We can't job cost this higher. If we're, if we're going to hire HR people, we've got to be able to really justify what we're doing here.

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21:04
Speaker 1
At what point do we need to make sure we have an HR person in place? Is there an employee count? Is there a revenue size? Is there, are there any rules of thumb for the point at which I need to be fully prepared to be past the transactional HR and have really HR leadership inside my business?

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21:23
Speaker 2
From my perspective, because I'm very strategic, that has to be out of the gate when you're considering starting a business. You know, think proactively. Okay. I may not need somebody right this minute, but who is that person going to be that's going to handle all the transactional and help me grow? Because you want them as a partner, but if you don't have that person in play. By the time you have 50 employees, it's time.

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21:59
Speaker 1
Okay, that's fair. And I, and now I'm, I can get that perspective. When you first started, I was like, oh, man. So, so it's going to be, I'm going to have, my first hire is going to be an HR person. We have to install metals or, you know, whatever our job is. What you're saying isn't that it's from the start you need to have this seed mindset. Yes. Which is I need to be. And perhaps, man, I don't know if you'll like what I'm about to say, but perhaps you can be strategic about HR in your business without having an HR professional leading that.

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22:38
Speaker 1
In other words, my job can be business owner or I can have vice president of operations, but if they have at least for some period of time in the business the ability to think strategically about HR issues, that could be sufficient. I don't necessarily have to go out and hire an HR professional, but what I'm hearing you say is once you reach maybe that 50 employee mark, it's a, it's time for you to have an HR professional.

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23:03
Speaker 2
Well, and Chad, I would argue, I would counter your point there with, you know, there comes a time where the HR responsibilities pull that CEO, that president, vice president, away from what they do best and helping develop and grow the organization. So there is a point that you need to offload those duties and find somebody who is equally as strategic to be a partner to be able to help the organization grow.

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23:49
Speaker 1
That's a really great point. I love that. And I can't agree with you more that there does reach almost in every business that I've ever come across a point, whether it's HR or sales or marketing or operations for that matter, where there's, there are people who are really in this lane who are carrying this added responsibility that it reaches a certain point where this responsibility isn't getting as much of their attention as it needs. This responsibility isn't getting as much responsive attention as it needs. And ultimately it's time to hand one off. And this is your primary responsibility. So it's time to hand this one off. That makes a lot of sense. That's helpful. And if you're an audience member, you're watching this. Consider, are you there? Have you reached that point where you have been handling the recruiting? Because, man, you love it.

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24:48
Speaker 1
You really enjoy being out in the Field with people. And you're the vice president of operations for a 75 employee company and you're heading up the internship program and you're heading up the employee, all these different types of things. But you're also the vice president of operations.

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25:05
Speaker 2
Right, Right.

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25:06
Speaker 1
It's a lot.

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25:07
Speaker 2
And there's a lot of nuances to all of the HR functionalities. There's just so much involved that, I mean, you take recruiting, we talked about that earlier. You know, from scheduling the interview to ordering the background check to this, that the other. There's all of that behind the scenes. That certainly needs to happen.

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25:29
Speaker 1
And it's time consuming. It's got to happen. So. All right, I'm going to bring Stacy back. There's one thing while I bring Stacy back that I want to just toss on the table with you is that I personally have always felt that one of the most essential functions of a strong human resources department is enabling employee development and training throughout the organization. And I'd like for you to describe, well, first off, if you agree, and second off, what an organization that wants to be a great employee development organization, they want to be awesome at training and developing their people. What role should HR be playing in that environment and what role should others be playing? Because I'll tell you, one of the things I hear a lot is like, well, I don't know, training hr. Are you on that?

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26:22
Speaker 1
And I always, I'm like, that's not fair. That's not quite right. You can't just lay training at HR's feet and walk out. So what's your take? Am I, am I wrong or.

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26:34
Speaker 2
Training is a part of an HR function. And I would say that anything from leadership development, management, essential skills, those kinds of things are led by the HR team. Now when you get into technical skill sets in the construction space, HR people don't know the technical, you know, how to's part of the job. What HR's role in that particular situation would be that they're facilitating the training. They're finding the technical trainer, whether it's in house or outside of the organization to have those training sessions. And they're making it. So HR absolutely plays a role in training. I would also say that companies need to have career paths. They need to spell that out because the younger generation coming into the workforce, they want to know, if I get hired here, what's my next step and what's my next step?

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27:45
Speaker 2
And you know, I want to see the three to five year plan for me. So it's really important for companies not only to have a really good job description but also paint the picture of if you start here, and these are the training things and certifications that you need to acquire over the next X months year, what have you. This is your projection and that's super important.

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28:13
Speaker 1
I love it. I love it. That seems fair to me. And it seems like there's an internal customer that obviously that HR is serving. But there also needs to be an investment from department leadership alongside HR to make this be successful. So HR not only needs to service its internal customer, but it also needs people to be bought into servicing the internal customer that's inside their department sense. In other words, it needs to have the buy in and support of everyone else so that everyone isn't just pointing the finger at HR and saying, I don't know, we're supposed to have a training program, hr, are you on that? But instead they're building it together. We are already up on time. I'm the worst. But we're going to go a little late. Stacy, what do we have in terms of questions?

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29:18
Speaker 3
We have a great question from Ralph. So how do you make training and employee growth a priority throughout your organization? Allow time away from projects for employee growth? I think that's a big concern for a lot of companies because they don't want to take people off the projects because they have to meet these deadlines and these schedules. But it is important for employee growth.

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29:43
Speaker 2
So.

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29:43
Speaker 3
So what are your thoughts on that?

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29:47
Speaker 2
Well, with any function of HR and this particular question relates to training, there has to be accountability from the top and there has to be buy in from the top. So how do they treat learning and development? And if they have buy into it, then you can formulate as an HR team what that looks like. Dollars to spend for your department for each of your, you know, team members for training, going away to conferences, taking time away from the job, maybe recruiting and hiring more people so that you have that backfill for you to take that time off. A lot of companies are also moving to sabbaticals in construction. It's a very challenging industry and it's high stress, high energy.

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30:45
Speaker 2
So a lot of companies are going to take some sabbatical time after a three, five year period so that they can recharge and train and develop.

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30:57
Speaker 3
Definitely when you were talking earlier about training and things like that, I, when I worked with Shapiro and Duncan, I worked very closely with the HR department and I think marketing also usually ties in as a support system to HR and trying to simplify the message, trying to get forms return that you need, whether it's health benefit forms, meeting deadlines, event planning, employee morale type things. So if you do have marketing support, include them into the HR conversation because they can help you out a lot when it comes to communicating these crucial messages, whether it's safety or HR or health benefits or anything like that, to get that information out and get it returned. It was always kind of a struggle, but we worked together pretty good doing that.

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31:59
Speaker 2
I would 100% agree both for your internal messaging and your external messaging, because you have to paint the story of the culture externally to attract candidates, but internally, all of that messaging around open enrollment, recruiting, employee referral program training and development, compliance. Why we have to do things that we have to do because the federal government and state legislation, you know, are putting, you know, bills in place that we have to comply with.

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32:30
Speaker 3
Yeah. And how can companies better enable a shift to becoming more strategic if they don't have unlimited overhead budgets?

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32:42
Speaker 2
It starts with investing in automation. We have tremendous systems that can do a lot of the transactional duties and it starts there and it will free up that one person team, two person team to be able to spend time planning and being more strategic.

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33:07
Speaker 3
Nice.

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33:08
Speaker 1
That's awesome. I think there's a real hesitance for companies to purchase software that they don't know that. How do I put this? Contractors don't love, don't like purchasing software that doesn't specifically tie into operations or the technical aspect of the work. Right. And I mean with automation, can you give us a sense of the return on investment that you would get for, you know, I don't know. That may be difficult for you to come up with out of thin air, but for X dollars invested, what are we, what are we saving when we bring in the right hr? Automation.

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33:56
Speaker 2
So on the front end you'd have an applicant tracking system which can give you those, the data analytics. As far as the candidates that are applying, who you're hiring, all of that data is critical to the ROI and understanding. You know, is this worth the investment? And then, you know, certainly you have your benefits tracking in there. You have your open enrollment and you have capabilities depending on the system with learning and development and then compliance. I can give you an example of the Affordable Care act requires at a certain number of employees requires you to do reporting. And at my previous employer, we paid over four thousand dollars for that reporting. If you have an app, if you have a, an HR system and you're automated, you can Pull that data out of the system and it saves you.

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34:56
Speaker 2
In that case, it would have saved us $4,000.

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35:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. I see where you're going with it. And I, you know, I'm assuming that if I were an audience member and I had questions about even any aspect of what we've talked about today, that these are all things you'd be, you know, totally comfortable having a conversation with somebody about if they wanted to reach out.

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35:21
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

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35:22
Speaker 1
If they wanted to reach out to you, where would they get you? Should they reach out via LinkedIn?

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35:27
Speaker 2
Ntphr.com cool. And my email is Kathy Humtphr, LinkedIn. Be happy to talk through any of your HR needs. I do an assessment from soup to nuts, no cost to the company to give you an idea of where you are and where you'd like to be. And then we go from there.

‍ ‍

35:54
Speaker 1
Awesome. Nice.

‍ ‍

35:56
Speaker 3
Thanks for joining us.

‍ ‍

35:57
Speaker 2
Yeah, thank you.

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36:00
Speaker 1
I really enjoy this conversation. Kathy and I have been particularly recently talking a lot, and I still feel like I have a lot to say to you. So. And I love listening to your perspectives on things. You're, you're a great, fun educator. I don't know if that's something you're aware of, but you are, you're very good at it.

‍ ‍

36:21
Speaker 2
Well, thank you.

‍ ‍

36:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, thank you. Very good. So. All right, Kathy, thanks again. Stacy, let's do a little housekeeping to wrap up the last show of three.

‍ ‍

36:34
Speaker 3
Yep.

‍ ‍

36:37
Speaker 1
So, so we are up in the air on exactly when we're coming back, the exact day I. Oh, wait, no, that's not true. We nailed it.

‍ ‍

36:46
Speaker 3
January 31st.

‍ ‍

36:48
Speaker 1
January 31st. This literally just happened over the past week. So we are, our first show back will be January 31st. We'll be running for 12 weeks, pretty much consecutively. Consecutively thereafter, unless there's some holiday that we haven't accounted for and we are looking for guests. So please reach out to Stacy if you or somebody you know should be on our show. And the best way to do that, to reach out to Stacy is right here. Stacey H. Steeltoe.com.com. You can reach out to me as well, but I'll just forward it to Stacy. He handles all the, she handles all the booking. So I'm not qualified to handle that particular aspect of what we do. Stacy, do you have a steel toe? Communications tip of the week.

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37:34
Speaker 3
I just want to remind everybody today that it is giving Tuesday. Make sure that you're supporting your local construction nonprofits that are doing all the hard work to recruit people into this industry to help get people or help get you employees. If you're not donating with money, try donating with your time or just spread the word by sharing the organizations and their messages and what they represent. Please do that today.

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38:08
Speaker 1
Awesome. Thank you, Stacy. So I'll take one moment and just say this, which is the past few years have been extremely busy for most people in the construction industry. Now, depending on if you've been doing commercial interiors exclusively, you might be angry to hear me say that. Or if you've been doing hotels exclusively, there was a pretty tough time during that period, but by and large the industry has been really thriving. There are some very valid indicators that we are heading into a less vibrant time. We're heading into a time where business will be less plentiful and your strategy for your business is going to be that much more important. I've been speaking with a lot of people recently about designing their strategic plan so that their business is more recession resilient or recession proof.

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39:14
Speaker 1
If that's a conversation that you want to have with me, you can reach out to me directly through LinkedIn or via that email. I've been giving a lot of talks on it. I've been giving lots of keynotes on it. So if there's anybody that wants to have that discussion, please do reach out. Best of luck everybody as we enter into the New Year. Happy holidays and all the best from us at the Morning Huddle. Stacy, any final words?

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39:40
Speaker 3
Happy holidays and I look forward to the break, recharging and bringing some new awesome topics and guests for next season.

‍ ‍

39:50
Speaker 1
Same here. We'll see you in 2023.

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39:52
Speaker 3
See ya.

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39:53
Speaker 1
Bye. Bye.

‍ ‍

Many construction companies develop meaningful innovations that create strategic advantages in their market in a crowded field of competitors. Perhaps they develop a tool, a fabrication method, or an operational process that gives them the upper hand only to have an employee leave and bring that information to the competition, diminishing a hard-won advantage.

When you think of Intellectual Property (IP), the industries that come to mind immediately are manufacturing and software, not construction! Greg Stone, IP Attorney with Whiteford, Taylor & Preston, joins us to see how construction companies can protect and monetize their IP.

Transcript:

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00:00
Speaker 1
Good morning. I'm not saying it works.

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00:01
Speaker 2
I wish you God speed.

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00:03
Speaker 1
Godspeed with all of that. I think that's really nice. You know, I'm not sure what kind of success you're gonna have with that today because the world, my friend, has changed. Right?

‍ ‍

00:14
Speaker 2
Latin American construction workers, they have different needs. They have completely different.

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00:20
Speaker 3
These awards have a huge, like, criteria that you have to fill out. And they usually have a community service or community relations portion, you know, the most with a high performance value. And, you know, sometimes it's 11 o' clock at night.

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00:38
Speaker 1
Funny, isn't that? Yeah, not for me. Not for me. At 11 o', clock, I am guaranteed to be snoring.

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00:45
Speaker 3
So.

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00:45
Speaker 2
So.

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00:55
Speaker 1
Hey, it's morning huddle time. For those of us, those of you who are joining us live, thank you for hanging in there. We the joys of live production. We are starting 11 minutes late and that is on. Really? Nobody? Just. It's on technology. I, I literally just had to do like, coding to get this. I, I had three panic attacks. But we're here and thank you, everybody. Thank you, Greg, for having such a. Being such a good sport about. Greg was like, so is this normal? Like, no, this is normal. I've had. I haven't had to deal with this in 30 meetings.

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01:31
Speaker 2
Not a problem. Not a problem.

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01:33
Speaker 1
You were very calm. Your calm brought a lot to the table. All right, Stacy. Greg. Thank you so much, Greg, for being here. Stacy, how are you today? What's going on in your world?

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01:45
Speaker 3
I'm doing good. It's fall. The leaves are looking beautiful. Maryland.

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01:51
Speaker 1
That it is. Yeah, it's, it's looking great. Greg, how about you? What's new in your world?

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01:57
Speaker 2
Same sunny, nice day for now. Cool day in Baltimore city.

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02:03
Speaker 1
So, yeah, we'll take it.

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02:04
Speaker 2
All good?

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02:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So were getting like, as were killing time during the panic attack, one of the things that Greg and I were talking about was that Greg is in kind of has been a lifelong musician and has been playing out for a while. Greg, just give us the. What are you into and where are you playing?

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02:27
Speaker 2
Yeah, sure. So I actually played out in a cover band from an 80s cover band. From 2006 to 2014, I was the keyboard player for Voodoo Economics. It's a nice 80s themed name there. And just after we stopped playing, I got the bug to go out on stage. So for about the past year, I've been doing a monthly gig, just me, my keyboards, microphone at an Irish pub in Severna Park. So you Catch me there one Saturday a month in the afternoon, just playing stuff that I like to play.

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03:00
Speaker 1
That's awesome, man.

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03:01
Speaker 3
Name of the pub?

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03:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was just gonna say. Which club? Which pub?

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03:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's called Brian Baru. So, yeah, giving them a quick shout out. But one, usually one Saturday a month, you'll find me in there playing music.

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03:14
Speaker 1
Excellent. So if Greg says anything today that you either want to confront him about or you don't want to find the dude, once a month, you'll have an opportunity. Well, excellent. So Greg is an attorney at White for Taylor and Preston, is that right?

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03:35
Speaker 2
Yep.

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03:36
Speaker 1
He focuses specifically on intellectual property law. And Greg and I got into a conversation several months back just, you know, getting to know each other in a breakfast environment. And in that conversation, it came out that, like, you know, I said, well, yeah, there's no IP in construction. Right. Which naturally led Greg to be like, not so fast. That's right. Yeah, not so fast. And I started learning a ton in that conversation. Said, hey, this is a conversation we need to be having in the huddle, a conversation that the audience that we. That we work with every day, or, I'm sorry, every week would really benefit from. So we're going to get into intellectual property in the construction industry. And Stacy, assuming anybody did hang around live, please engage with those folks, you know, on the, you know, live chat.

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04:29
Speaker 1
We'll pull you back and see if we have any audience questions to, you know, approach here. With about 10 minutes to go, so I have to, like, recalibrate my brain to make sure that we land that time correctly, but we'll see you soon. So, Greg, let's start off by talking just a little bit about what intellectual property means in a legal sense. What is ip, which we, you know, intellectual property, or ip, as we call it.

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05:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. So when we're talking about intellectual property, generally that's a body of law, but fundamentally, we're talking about four different areas. Patents, trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets. That's kind of the universe of categories of intellectual property. So patents protect new inventions, and particularly inventions that are embodied in a product, a process, a machine or a composition, some type of chemical composition. Right. And I can give examples, if you like, Chad, of how they relate.

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05:44
Speaker 1
Yeah. So what's an example of a patent in, like, what. What's something that. That we think of that. That all of us would know immediately as a patent and then maybe give us, like, the construction example.

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05:57
Speaker 2
So. So, I mean, you know, the. The first automobile engine, you Know the, the for the, an assembly line for making an automobile. I mean, you know that there are what, 12 million almost the issued patents now, you know that have issued over the last two centuries in the U.S. you know, so there are many, many and many different categories of invention, but particularly in the construction industry, it would be things like, you know, different machines. I mean Caterpillar for instance, has loads of patents for bulldozers and different machinery. You've got, you know, some of the stuff that we've done are concrete repair methods and apparatus. You've got, you've got monitoring drugs.

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06:56
Speaker 1
Yeah, I can patent a method.

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06:59
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

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07:00
Speaker 1
Okay, so that's, you're going to talk about the difference between a patent and a trade secret because in my brain I'm going wait, isn't a method kind of a trade secret? But, but I'm sure you'll, you'll paint that picture. But okay, so we got it for patents. I think I can picture that's usually it's associated with what I get inventions. That term that you said we invented this new product or new way of doing something that we are then putting a patent on and saying nobody can do that but us or nobody can use that but us.

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07:33
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so importantly, fundamentally, the patent gives a right to block others from making, using, selling or offering for sale that new product, that new process, that new composition. But in exchange for that, you have to file a patent application that is a detailed technical description of exactly what the invention is. So you're telling the world exactly what it is that you've developed, how to go out and make it, how to go out and use it. And that's the trade off.

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08:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, the trade off is the moment that patent expires, which is how long?

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08:12
Speaker 2
It's 20 years from the time you first file the application.

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08:15
Speaker 1
The moment it expires, everybody knows how to go out and replicate your.

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08:20
Speaker 2
And the public is encouraged to why we make those documents public so that once it expires the world can use it.

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08:27
Speaker 1
Furthermore, I can, I'm publishing my patent which says, you know, use a little from column A, column B and column C. And this is exactly how you do it. If somebody's really creative and they may be able to say actually we're going to use column D and it's going to be different and we're not going to be infringing on the patent. But you know, they actually by being able to see their recipe, they just Educated me on how to do something better.

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08:50
Speaker 2
Yep. And there's a whole body of law how close you have to be infringing. You know, can you do D or can you maybe do C prime and come that close? Right. And, and still avoid the scope of the patent. And that's where you get into the big, heavy, nasty litigation.

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09:07
Speaker 1
Interesting. Fascinating. All right, so then we got trademarks. Talk to me about trademarks.

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09:11
Speaker 2
Well, if I may though, just to contrast, before we get to trademarks, I'd like to contrast patents from trade secrets. Trade secrets are really at the opposite end of the spectrum from patents.

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09:24
Speaker 3
Right.

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09:25
Speaker 2
Patents again become a public document, but they let you block anybody else from going out and making, using and selling the thing that you've invented. Right. Regardless of whether or not they know about your patent. A trade secret protects any type of information that has independent commercial value that you take reasonable measures to keep it locked up, to keep it secret. If you take those protections and you don't let the cat out of the bag, you protect the information by non disclosure agreements. You have a legal trade secret interest in that information so that if a former employee runs away with it to a competitor, if a competitor wrongfully gets access to that information, they're able to go out and use it.

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10:13
Speaker 2
If they go out and start using it, you can assert trade secret protections against them and sue them for misappropriation of the trade secret. But the key difference between trade secrets and patents are the trade secret. You, you keep it secret, you keep that information locked up and that's great. But somebody out there that independently develops whatever the thing is, that is subject to that trade secret. So let's say you've got a, an installation process that talks about how you are coding a wall to make some multi level surface on a wall. And the way that you're doing that is really a secret process. If somebody else comes in after the fact and looks at the wall and is somehow able to figure that out, reverse engineer it, you know that's fair game.

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11:06
Speaker 2
They're able to do that because it's not patented because you relied on trade secret. If somebody can reverse engineer it, that's fair game. If they wrongfully got access to your information, you can go after them for trade secret misappropriation. But if they didn't and they just figure it out, then that's fair game.

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11:24
Speaker 1
So you have to make a decision. Do I want to go for a patent? Publish how exactly I'm doing this, make that a part of the public Record and then have 20 years of making hay before everybody can come and replicate, you know, duplicate my stuff or do I want to go down the trade secret route, just, you know, put together non disclosure information, put together, you know, agreements, that is, and put together a sort of a way to make sure that if somebody does on illegitimately get their hands on this information that I have recourse.

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12:00
Speaker 2
Right.

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12:02
Speaker 1
But I'm not going to go through the whole patent process and publishing and all that type of stuff. You have to make that decision which makes more sense for my business.

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12:10
Speaker 2
Right, exactly. And people weigh it. Depending on how difficult it's going to be for somebody who has proper access to be able to reverse engineer. If it's going to be tough for them to reverse engineer, then trade secrets might be more appropriate. If it's really going to be easy for them to figure it out once they see it, patent route probably makes more sense.

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12:30
Speaker 1
Excellent. All right, that's great. So, so trademarks and then copyrights real quick.

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12:35
Speaker 2
Yep. Yeah. So trademarks protect branding that are associated with any product, any service. So that branding might be in the name of a company, it might be in a unique logo. You know, for lots of repair companies they have different logos that might have a building silhouette or a house silhouette. There's a gazillion different registrations for trademarks for logos that have those house emblems in them. But any unique design element that you use to identify as a source or identify as a brand of a product or service or any name that you associate with that product or service can serve as a trademark. And you can protect that by getting a federal trademark registration at the US Patent and Trademark.

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13:26
Speaker 1
This is, this is easy. This is the big McDonald's M. This is the Nike Swoosh. This is the right, those different types of things. And I have to make sure that I'm not putting my Nike a Nike Swoosh on my product and trying to do business off of their good name.

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13:43
Speaker 2
And the ones that you just gave examples of, Chad, are really great examples. The McDonald's M, the Golden arches. Right. When, when people see that, they immediately associate that with McDonald's burgers. The Nike Swoosh. When, when somebody sees the swoosh mark, they immediately associate it with shoes, with sneakers. Those are really fanciful original marks. Very strong brands.

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14:07
Speaker 1
Yep.

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14:07
Speaker 2
That versus Chad Prinky construction. Right, that's very, very descriptive. You can't get any trademark protection for the term construction. Your own name is a descriptive term. For you. So there's not much protection that attaches there. So when you're coming up with a name that you want to have distinction wrap around from a branding perspective, the more original you get. You know, again, that Nike Swoosh is really original. The, the golden arches are really original. So the more original or fanciful you can be in your branding, the stronger the trademark rights are going to be that attached to it.

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14:47
Speaker 1
Excellent. Okay. And in construction, we would just see that associated with construction brands. Right. We would see that with the logos that we've come to know. You can probably picture some in your mind right away as you start to think of the construction brands that you're most familiar with. And then. And so now into copyright.

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15:05
Speaker 2
And so copyrights are a really active field intellectual property field, particularly as it relates to construction. So you see lots and lots of disputes over what can different parties do with, for example, blueprints, architectural drawings, all the way from drawing phase up to a finished building, photographs of buildings, any technical design documents that get wrapped up in the. And ultimately in the finished blueprints or building information modeling models. Right. You know, any of this stuff can be protected by copyright. Copyright protects any original work of authorship that's fixed in a tangible form. So that's why I'm giving these examples of things like architectural drawings of photos of different types of software. All of these are protectable by way of copyright. And to get the strongest protection, you file an application to copyright office for copyright registration.

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16:16
Speaker 2
But really important issue is that the copyright only protects the literal expression itself. So for instance, with a blueprint, a copyright in the blueprint protects you against somebody else making copies of the blueprint and then maybe going out and holding that copy that they've made and constructing a building from that copy. It does not protect against somebody rightfully using the blueprint, building and then somebody else going in and scanning through the building, figuring out exactly how it's put together, and then building their own exactly identical building. The copyright in a blueprint only protects against making a copy or substantially similar copy of the blueprint itself, not of the building that results.

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17:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, so if I'm able to go in and sort of make my own drawings as I'm doing it, putting it into my own model, and, you know, replicate exactly what you built, that's no copyright protection there. But if I get my hands on your plans and then I build something substantially similar, now we got a problem.

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17:33
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, particularly if you've gotten my plans now, you're making copies and you're giving it to your architect and you're giving it to your construction team and that kind of stuff. And the only exception there is where it's possible that you come up with a final building design that's so incredibly, amazingly unique. Like it's a building that's shaped like a queue, like the letter Q or something like that, you know, something that's so original that the building itself is essentially a sculpture, then you could have a copyright interest in the building itself. But just, you know, a rectangular office building now it's going to be really hard to assert a copyright interest in a traditional new tower.

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18:14
Speaker 1
And what are the most common. You say this is a pretty active space. What are the most common disputes that are arising here? Well, let me pose one. You tell me if I'm off base. The picture I have in my mind is, you know, I, as the architect designed something, the, you know, who owns that design? Does the owner own it or is the architect owner?

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18:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, and it really depends ultimately. And you know, what is the original document? What's the agreement between the architect and the, and the project owner. Right. You know, if the, you know, if that doesn't spell out that the owner is going to own the copyright interest in those plans and absolutely the architect is going to own those plans. So up front in the agreement, when you're bringing in the architect, those issues have to be fully vetted. Right. And documented in that agreement to spell out, okay, I'm going to own these plans. And presumably then an architect who's jumping into that type of venture is going to price in the fact that I'm doing this development work entirely for you and I'm going to assign over my interest in the copyright. I'm doing this work, creating this work for you to own.

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19:32
Speaker 2
But absent that agreement spelled out up front, you know that with some exceptions, the architect is going to own it. And, and the owner is going to be, you know, out in the cold if he wants to go and take that to the, to his next development.

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19:48
Speaker 1
Right. That's what I was just thinking is, you know, why can't I just use these plans to do 10 more developments just like it in different cities across the country and just hire you, the architect, to be my ca. You know, you can just be my. Right. You can just do the CA work on that stuff.

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20:03
Speaker 2
But just quickly, I, I do want to do. Want to clarify that there are certain exceptions, you know, for outside Contractors like an architect, if they're specially commissioned, which is a term of art under the copyright laws to do this particular work, then there could be automatic assignment. If they're an employee of the company for copyright purposes. The, the ownership could automatically go from employee to owner. Just for copyrights doesn't relate to patents or inventions. But, but there are certain circumstances where you could have that automatic transfer. But fundamentally, because those are exceptions to the basic rule, it really dictates you deal with the issue upfront in the agreement spelling out who owns what in the end.

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20:50
Speaker 1
I love this. Okay, so thank you very much. I think that was, so we've got these four different areas of intellectual property, how they relate specifically to construction, where we can see these things actively. And I hope that the audience is starting to process through, you know, probably some light bulbs, because again, you know, I've been working with construction companies for 15 years in a consulting capacity. I've never once ended up in an IP discussion. And so, you know what I mean? So I, I, this leads down this path of like, what's the biggest issues or the biggest mistake that you're seeing made in the construction industry regarding intellectual property?

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21:30
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I kind of alluded to it a bit so far. One of the biggest challenges, one of the biggest problems is just a lack of understanding of what I as an owner own by way of developments that are, that pop up, right? So if I have an employee, if I'm a company that's doing construction projects, but every now and then I'm coming up with a new novel improvement for, for forming patios on concrete buildings, right? Invention comes out of that process.

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22:16
Speaker 1
Right?

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22:16
Speaker 2
And the way our patent laws work and protect inventions, an employee owns that invention. With very rare exceptions, an employee owns that invention unless again, there's an agreement that assigns it over to the employer. So employer is thinking, I pay this person's salary. I have them, I've assigned them to this team to work on coming up with a solution for how we're installing a patio on an existing flat planar concrete building surface. And they come up with this great concept. So if I've paid for that effort, surely I must own it. And that's simply not the case. And so the problem is, you know, owner who thinks he owns it has gone through the patent process. If he's never gotten an assignment of the inventor's ownership interest over to the company, he simply doesn't own it.

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23:11
Speaker 2
And so he's invested all this time, money and effort in trying to obtain patent protection. And because he never went through the process of getting an assignment, you know, he's now out in the cold. His former employees, a lot of the times now own that invention, and there's nothing that he can do unless he can go chase down and give him $1,000 to now assign the vention, or more likely, you know, $100,000.

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23:41
Speaker 1
So it goes back to what I kind of alluded to now a couple of times during the. During the show, which is that, you know, the biggest issue is that they're not thinking about it. And then once they are thinking about it, they. It's too late. You know, there are. There are a series of issues that you really have to be proactive about. One of the issues in particular that you get just gave an example of is if you're an employer considering putting together some sort of, you know, statute that your employee doesn't own the invention, but the employer owns the inventions that the employee develops while there. So exactly this overall, you know, and you know me, I'm. I'm like, I just like a fight. I just like a fight. So I. I'll pick one with you here for a moment and just.

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24:34
Speaker 1
And just say, you know, all of this. I'm having a hard time squaring all of this protecting of. Of our stuff and preventing other people from using our stuff and keeping employees from being able to own their own stuff. And like, I'm having a hard time squaring all of that with this idea of, like, actually making positive strides in the building industry. You know, Stacy and I built this platform of the morning huddle, really, to showcase people who are helping to push positive change in the construction industry. So, you know, when. When I come up with some fanciful invention that changes the game for the construction industry, man, it pisses me off to think about that, you know, being something that now only I can do, nobody else can do. Right. Help me to square that in my own mind or, you know.

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25:28
Speaker 2
Yeah.

‍ ‍

25:29
Speaker 1
How would you respond to that?

‍ ‍

25:30
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so that, Chad, is a debate that is no way exclusive to the construction and really hear it a lot in the pharmaceutical industry. But look, fundamentally, our patent system is an incentive system. It incentivizes innovation. And in exchange for you going out and innovating and teaching the world about your innovation, by way of coming in and filing a patent application that becomes public, the government will give you a monopoly for a limited amount of time over that invention. But benefiting the public by giving them that knowledge, the knowledge of how to make and use your innovation once your patent expires.

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26:15
Speaker 2
And if we didn't have that, that drive that driver for people to innovate in the first place, then why is any company going to go through the blood, sweat and tears that has to be invested in the innovative process, you know, if there's not gravy for you at the end by way of a patent. So if we're going, if we want to see new innovation coming up, really in any industry, we want to be able to reward that innovation. And that's the whole goal of the patent system, reward innovation so that people are going out and they're developing new things that are going to benefit the public. And the benefit that innovator gets is this monopoly by way of a patent for a limited amount of time.

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27:06
Speaker 1
So what you're saying is that, you know, fundamentally the protections system has competition built in, but it has monopoly built in as the incentive for a period of time. And I would also, I will concede that, you know, if we aren't that every time somebody pushes the envelope and does something amazing and is changing the way that things work, while I might not be able to replicate it will inspire similar advancements elsewhere. And, and so overall, as long as somebody is innovating the innovations, even though they may be licensed, protected, will inspire, motivate and create market demand for additional motivate or for additional innovation. Yeah, absolutely.

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28:06
Speaker 2
And that's one of the fundamental philosophies of the patent system. It's, you know, not only am I teaching the public about my great new thing, but I'm planting the seeds for everybody else to come after me and build onto it and further improve it.

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28:22
Speaker 1
1, 1 comment. I wonder how you would respond to this. As I'm reflecting on everything that we've talked about is, you know, as we talk about incentivizing innovation, you know, if it's going to be the employees themselves that you're leaning into to create, to innovate, to do something special, wouldn't it be wise to have some sort of maybe mutual incentive that says, you know, an employee is entitled to 50% of any, you know, whatever rent of revenues generated as a result of monetizing said patent or said trade secret or fill in the blank?

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29:03
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And many companies will do that. They'll actually have an internal incentive system and they vary in Structure and let's say reward level, you know, from company to company. I mean, you know, some might get a nice pen, others might get a 10% royalty, you know, ongoing for the life of the patent. I mean, it really varies, but I think generally it's a good business practice. It's smart business practice to incentivize your employees, to reward them for that innovation. It's just improving your product on the marketplace.

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29:42
Speaker 1
Yeah, I feel the same. I think, you know, as we talk about incentivizing innovation, you know, you're. You can't. You can't say, hey, anything you do here belongs to me and not you, so go be creative.

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29:55
Speaker 2
Right, right. Exactly.

‍ ‍

29:57
Speaker 1
Exactly. Yeah, I think. I think. All right, awesome. I want to bring Stacy back. I think we have some questions, comments, and, you know, I want to make sure that we get an opportunity to hit on some of those. Stacy, what do we got?

‍ ‍

30:13
Speaker 3
All right, we have two questions on copyright. So I can go through the. I can go through with a digital scanner and replicate the model and not violate a copyright question mark.

‍ ‍

30:29
Speaker 2
And so again, it depends. It's going to depend on the specific building. And is there really something super original about the building? But, you know, a, you know, let's say a colonial house. Somebody could absolutely go in with a digital scanner, walk through the house, take very precise dimensions, and go and build an exact replica without. And again, this is assuming it's a standard colonial house. Right. But assuming that's the case, absolutely somebody would be able to go and create an exact duplicate of that house in another neighborhood. What they would not be able to do is go to the source plans, the source blueprints, or the prints that they got originally from the builder, make copies of those and hand them to an architect or a builder to go out. And because. And that's just the way the copyright interest works.

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31:34
Speaker 3
Okay. And I think the next question probably answers it similarly, but. So school system hires architect to design an elementary school, pay for the design, decide that I want to now build six identical elementary schools with one set of drawings that I bought. Copyright.

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31:55
Speaker 2
So a copyright interest absolutely exists in those plans. And who owns it depends on what that agreement said outright between the school system and the architect. And so if it was the school's plans, to be able to take that out and use it to build a bunch of other schools, it would be wise in that scenario to up front, say that, spell it out in the agreement. The architect then has the benefit of knowing that up front they can build that into the basket of rights that they're giving the school system and say, you know, you can go out and build seven more units. You can go out and build 10 more units, whatever cap they want to put on it. Because originally the architect presumably owns those rights in those plans.

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32:43
Speaker 2
But really depend, again, it dictates dealing with this issue up front in the initial agreements between any third party and owner developer who's working a project. Awesome.

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32:59
Speaker 1
Awesome. I have one question, Greg, which is how do I know when I should be taking steps to protect ip?

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33:12
Speaker 2
Anytime that you're doing, anytime that you're being creative, you should be going. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to run out to an IP attorney, but anytime that you're doing something new, you have a new branding that you're associating with this process for installing X, right? You installed X and found that in doing it, I can improve my reinforcement by adding these elements to it. Anytime that you're doing something new, inherently there is intellectual property that's associated with that new thing. And so you need to go through, go through the mental process of, you know, does this really give me some type of economic advantage, some type of benefit that my competitors might want to use if they found out about it?

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34:04
Speaker 2
And if that's the case, then you should be looking at, okay, well, if that's the case, what kind of protections can I wrap around it? Is it a new branding that my competitors are going to want to adopt? If so, I want to go seek trademark protection. Is it, is it some type of functional improvement? If so, I want to consider the possibility of patent protection or have a strategy where I'm going to maintain trade secrecy over that information. But fundamentally, anytime you're coming up with anything new, that's giving you some benefit out in the marketplace that your competitors are interested in, there's IP there and that should be vetted.

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34:37
Speaker 1
Excellent. That's really useful. So, so, you know, you talk about financial value, it's the, the motivation to do it. What's, what's the financial incentive to do this? One of the biggest issues that I see with construction companies from my seed as a consultant, helping companies to figure out where they're trying to go over the next three years, five years, 10 years, those types of conversations, all the time I'm having lots of conversations about exits, right? About what are we planning to do when it comes to selling the business, when it comes to whether it's, you Know, creating an esop or whether it's, you know, trying to find a way to keep it in the family. But more often right now, a lot of the conversations that I'm having really do revolve around how do we get the most possible valuation for the business?

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35:25
Speaker 1
Do you see intellectual property having these types of protections in place, mattering in any meaningful way to construction company valuation?

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35:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's an issue that's not unique to the construction industry. It's, you know, anytime a company is looking at an exit, obviously you're looking to maximize the valuation. And so hopefully you're doing that early on, long before, five years before you're getting to a negotiation table for some type of exit, some type of MA transaction.

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36:04
Speaker 1
Right.

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36:04
Speaker 2
And so to the extent we talked about different examples of ips, they relate to construction industries. So it would really behoove somebody that's looking at an exit five years down the road to go through and say, okay, do I have some things that are sitting on a shelf that I've maybe not jumped through the hoops of seeking protection for the brands that I have out in the marketplace? Have I secured trademark registrations for them? If there are. Are issues that I've kept secret and that, you know, we've been working on and tinkering inside, can I wrap some patent protection around them? If, if you get the negotiation table and you.

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36:49
Speaker 2
And there you find that you've got these things that have been sitting on the shelf that you haven't taken the steps to protect, now your valuation's down here, whereas five years before, you've secured all this protection, you know, for the stuff and have federal protections that now attached to it, boom, your valuations way up here. So it's really a useful exercise to go through, you know, an itemization, if you will. Well, before you get to that negotiation table to see what things are. Do we have in process, what things do we have sitting on the shelf that we just haven't really acted on that could just add value to our basket of intellectual property that we can wrap protections around just to boost our valuation. And we see that a lot. And the folks that are doing it early are benefiting.

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37:40
Speaker 2
The folks that are waiting until they get to the negotiation table are realizing, oh, man, I wish I would have done that.

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37:48
Speaker 1
When I think of some of the most pervasive challenges, you know, or, you know, yeah. Challenges the business owners face in the construction industry, this is one of them, is Just, you know, exiting from the business is oftentimes just so unappetizing. It's just, you know, yay. I get 2x profit, you know, or, you know, 3x profit. It depends on the world that you're operating in. But I think getting a comprehensive IP strategy in place and really taking a look at what protections you can bring to the table, that's going to make a huge difference, particularly to a strategic purchaser rate. Somebody who's going to buy your company and be strategic with that. I mean, imagine a private equity firm that owns 18 different mechanical contractors.

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38:29
Speaker 1
You own protections on four different patentable techniques and processes that I now, not only am I going to be able to buy this company and get the value out of, but I'm actually going to be able to take this and apply it to the 18 other companies that all. Now all 19 of my companies are going to be enjoying federal protection for the next, whatever, 15 years on this very unique way of doing things. It's going to give a strategic advantage in the market.

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38:54
Speaker 2
Exactly.

‍ ‍

38:55
Speaker 1
Definitely worth doing. Last question. What's it cost? How do I protect all this stuff? Right. Like how much?

‍ ‍

39:00
Speaker 2
How much?

‍ ‍

39:01
Speaker 1
So, so all there might be some people who are listening and watching saying like, I gotta do this, but wait a minute, I don't want to get sucked down the rabbit hole with, you know, a bazillion dollars with attorney's fees.

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39:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. And costs are really all over the place for the different types of protections that we talked about for trade secret protection. That's all, that's all client based. It's building the systems internally to literally keep information locked up. Right. And having data password protected. So that's just whatever your internal infrastructure costs are.

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39:35
Speaker 1
So internally that's, in the scheme of things, the most affordable protections you can have are trade secret protections.

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39:42
Speaker 2
Right? Right. Copyrights are pretty simple process. It's a registration fee that's under $100. And attorneys, if you work with an attorney to do a copyright application, probably under $500 to do a registration. It's really a pretty simple process. Trademarks are, I say, usually between $3,500 and $4,500 from start of the process through the, through to registration, assuming there are no tremendous headaches that come out in the process. And there are headaches that could come up during the process, but Generally in that $3,500, $4,500 range is appropriate. Budget patents are oftentimes very valuable. But likewise the most pricey type of protection that you can get. So for a very simplistic application going through the entire examination, you might spend $15,000 for something that's incredibly complex. You know, maybe a new piece of software or really complex electrical control systems.

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40:59
Speaker 2
You know, that could be 25, 35, $40,000. It really depends on the specific technology. And there I'm talking about from the start of the process, through the multi year examination process, all the way to ultimately an issued patent.

‍ ‍

41:16
Speaker 1
Wow, that's, I mean, go ahead, Stacey. Sorry, please.

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41:19
Speaker 3
Oh, I just have a quick question. So is there a way to like, you think you have something unique and innovative and then you go through the process and pay for everything. What are the chances you're going to get denied for something? Like maybe you weren't aware that something like this is already out there.

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41:39
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so that does happen where you're going through the process. You filed your application 99 times out of 100. We expect we're going to get an initial rejection from the patent office and then we get into argument with the examiner to explain why we're different from what the examiner cited against us. And so, I mean, but that's really where the game is. That's the back and forth, that's the negotiation that takes place during the patent examination process. And again, that's pricey. That's part of that 15 to $40,000 budget. You know, if it sails through, it's only a little bit of interaction that's back and forth with the examiner and you get to an issued patent. However, if there's lots of back and forth, lots of fight, sometimes the examiner digs his heels in.

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42:34
Speaker 2
You feel that he's wrong in citing against you what he cited against you. You have to appeal. And the appellate process gets pricey. So it really varies. Sometimes the examiner is very well grounded in the rejection that, that he or she makes, and sometimes they're not. But if they're not, you have to keep fighting, you know, which just adds cost to the process.

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43:01
Speaker 3
Thanks.

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43:02
Speaker 1
Awesome. This has been a really useful conversation. It's got, it's definitely got my wheels turning and I have nothing to protect. But, but you know, I, I, I can picture having some different conversations with my clients as a result of this. So I appreciate your time just even personally and I know that our audience, you know, has probably got their creativity peaked and going to be having some interesting discussions this week and afterward as a result. So thank you so much for joining us and having the discussion, Greg.

‍ ‍

43:35
Speaker 2
Absolutely. My Pleasure. Thanks for having me.

‍ ‍

43:37
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's our pleasure. So anything that you want to say? Parting words?

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43:45
Speaker 2
Just the one morsel that I'll leave everyone with is you hear horror stories about people leaving value on the table. The earlier you address these issues, the better. Do it internally. Just have a sit down and brainstorm about what do we have on the shelf that we think gives us that competitive edge and is there some protection that we can wrap around it? The earlier that you do that, the better. If you wait too long, your competitors could beat you to the process.

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44:12
Speaker 1
Wonderful. Great advice. Thanks, Greg. Stacy, we got some housekeeping to do. Let's, let's walk people through some of the stuff that's coming up so you can see across the bottom here. Join us next week at the same time for episode 33. Amy Marks, the queen of free prefab. Freepab. Free prefab joins us to talk about all things prefab. I can't wait for that discussion. That'll be a lot of fun. She's extremely dynamic and I'm sure people will, you know, have a great time as well as learn a ton during that episode. Stacy, do we have the Steeltoe Communications marketing tip of the week?

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44:49
Speaker 3
Yes. Just a quick reminder to protect your digital footprint. Just do a scan online of your company to make sure you're managing your reputation and not waiting for a crisis to happen. So that could be looking at your reviews, making sure you're active in the community, applying for awards. You want to make sure there's positive feedback about your company and you're keeping that up to date. Don't wait for something bad to happen. And that's all people see when it comes to your digital footprint online.

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45:25
Speaker 1
Great advice. Love it. I want to just plug for a moment. I will be. I'm running a presentation tomorrow in conjunction sponsored by HMS Insurance down at the BWI Marriott. If that's something anybody would like to learn more about, please reach out the focus of the conversation. I'm going to be splitting time with an economist and we will be talking about economic conditions in the construction industry in 2023 and what you can be doing today to prepare your company to deal with whatever may come and capitalize on the opportunities that you show up. So if anybody again would like to hear more about that, just shoot me a message right here on LinkedIn. Stacy, I look forward to seeing you again next week. Anything you want to say before we wrap?

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46:12
Speaker 3
Nope. I'm looking forward to next week, too.

‍ ‍

46:14
Speaker 2
All right.

‍ ‍

46:15
Speaker 1
See you guys.

‍ ‍

What is the difference between BD and Marketing, and how should they complement one another? Many construction companies get it wrong, and some don't even incorporate these efforts into their business.

Ronnie Brouillard and Taylor Tobin might have it figured out better than any tandem in the construction industry. These two have been a tandem with the general contractor, Chesapeake Contracting Group for five years, setting a high standard for professionalism in their crafts. Ronnie (BD) and Taylor (Marketing) are in lock-step with their efforts and will show us how to learn from their model.

We welcome them to The Morning Huddle to share their strategies with our audience in a fun and educational discussion.

Transcript:

‍ ‍

00:00
Speaker 1
All right, it's morning huddle time.

‍ ‍

00:01
Speaker 2
Good morning.

‍ ‍

00:02
Speaker 1
I'm not saying it works. I wish you God speed. Godspeed with all of that. I think that's really nice. You know, I'm not sure what kind.

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00:11
Speaker 3
Of success you're gonna have with that.

‍ ‍

00:12
Speaker 1
Today, because the world, my friend, has changed. Right.

‍ ‍

00:16
Speaker 2
A lot of American construction workers, they have different needs. They have completely different needs.

‍ ‍

00:21
Speaker 4
These awards have a huge, like, criteria that you have to fill out. And they usually have a community service or community.

‍ ‍

00:32
Speaker 1
You know, the most productive with a high performance value. And, you know, sometimes it's 11 o' clock at night. Funny, isn't that? Yeah, not. Not for me. Not for me. At 11 o', clock, I am guaranteed to be snoring. So. So. It's morning huddle time. Welcome, welcome. Chad Prinke here.

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01:00
Speaker 2
Welcome.

‍ ‍

01:00
Speaker 1
With Seth Farger standing in for my very good friend Stacy Holzinger, who's in London. Seth, thank you so much for joining us.

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01:07
Speaker 3
Glad to be here. Thanks for clarifying because everyone was going to be surprised to see me and go, whoa, Stacy, you're bald and hairy.

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01:13
Speaker 1
So things have changed. Yes, Just amazing what a week can do. And we've got two of my very dear friends and just absolutely dynamic people who are joining us this morning. Ronnie Bruyard and Taylor Tobin from Chesapeake Contracting Group. Ronnie and Taylor, thank you so much for being here. I feel like this is long overdue.

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01:35
Speaker 2
Oh, thanks for having us. We appreciate it very much.

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01:41
Speaker 1
So. So let's just do a quick check in on what's going on in your life real quick. Seth, you mentioned at the outset of this thing that you're still operating on a different time zone.

‍ ‍

01:55
Speaker 2
What's.

‍ ‍

01:55
Speaker 1
What's new in your world?

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01:57
Speaker 3
I just returned from Alaska. My father and brother a year ago said, hey, we want to go fishing in Alaska. And I have three kids and one more on the way. So planning things a year in advance is hypothetical, but thankfully it worked out. So I just spent five days salmon fishing and UTV driving in Alaska with my dad and my brother. So he's 68, and once in a lifetime opportunity. Highly recommend it get up there if you can. So it was great.

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02:25
Speaker 1
Where did you go?

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02:28
Speaker 3
Which, if you look at a map, is barely Alaska. It's like way, way south and just across from British Columbia. So it's not as, like, way up there. But I mean, from the moment I landed, it is. It is Alaska through and through, mountainous, just peaks covered in trees. There was a salmon run going. So every stream you looked at had was literally moving with fish like it was crazy. Didn't. I saw a bear from about, I don't know, 500 yards away. I would love to have seen one a little closer.

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02:58
Speaker 1
Perfect distance. That's the perfect distance. You don't want to see a bear from a whole heck of a lot closer. I speak from personal experience on that. Awesome. What about you, Taylor? What's going on in your world?

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03:09
Speaker 4
Not much. Celebrating my dad's birthday this week. Yeah, that's about it.

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03:15
Speaker 1
Gonna be a big party or just.

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03:17
Speaker 4
No. If you know my dad, he does not like a big party, so it'll be probably a crab feast in the backyar, right?

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03:24
Speaker 1
That sounds actually perfect.

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03:26
Speaker 3
Yeah.

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03:27
Speaker 1
Well. Well, Ronnie, you and I have something in common. We just checked in. We're going to be at the same party this weekend.

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03:32
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. That's going to be a shindig for sure.

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03:35
Speaker 1
It's gonna be a good time. Going up to the. Going up to the. To the canyon. Keller Brothers pig roast.

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03:40
Speaker 2
Yeah. You're in my neck of the woods now.

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03:42
Speaker 1
You're gonna have to be my guide.

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03:46
Speaker 2
No problem.

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03:47
Speaker 1
All right, well, good. So. And I have nothing going on. I'm just sick. So let's dive into today's topic. So we, when were preparing for this conversation, was like, I personally think that there's so much confusion about the difference between marketing and business development and sales in the construction industry. Maybe across industries, quite frankly, but in the construction industry, I see so much. You know, so many companies kind of get this wrong, and it's. And it's rare that a company gets it as right as you guys have. And I think that has a lot to do with the way that the two of you work together and the way that you've communicated about roles and responsibilities. And so today I really want to talk about best practices with business development. Ronnie and marketing. Taylor.

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04:46
Speaker 1
And then, you know, talk about how you delineate how you divide and conquer and how that whole effort is impacting the organization. So with that, Seth, I'm going to ask you to monitor, jump on the LinkedIn feed and monitor the. The comments via LinkedIn and, you know, communicate with the group and make sure that we're capturing great questions that we can bring back here in the last 10 minutes. And I'm gonna just start rolling, talking to Ronnie and Taylor about what they do and how they do it. So, Seth, we'll see you with about 10 to go. Is that cool? Yeah, Very good. See you in a bit. All right, so like I said, so much confusion surrounding these roles. I think there's this trap where marketing is just viewed as kind of like social media.

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05:38
Speaker 1
I don't know what that is, but, like, somebody's gotta update our Twitter feed.

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05:41
Speaker 2
Right.

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05:42
Speaker 1
And business development is just kind of golfing all day and. Right. And so, you know, I think that, you know, it's a wild oversimplification. How do the two of you describe your individual functions and how do you distinguish between them? I'll start with. I'll start with you, Taylor. How do you describe your. Your role in marketing?

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06:05
Speaker 4
Sure. I think for my purposes, the way I differentiate what Ronnie and I do is I communicate the brand globally, and Ronnie really communicates it personally. So he's more the boots on the ground of what we do, whereas I'm more up in the air, I guess you could say. What I love about marketing, and you're spot on when everyone thinks I just do social media, which is a big part of my job. But what I love is I really work across every single department within the company. So from. I work really closely with human resources on recruitment and on internal culture. I work with Ronnie for business development, marketing, collateral presentations. I work with pre construction for proposal development. On the technical side, trade, partner relations. I work with leadership on vision and goals, philanthropic activities.

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07:02
Speaker 4
And then I guess the only one I really don't work with would be accounting. But I just spent a lot of money, so I work with them in that way. Yeah, sure, yeah. But Ronnie and I work probably the.

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07:13
Speaker 1
Closest of the two, so that's such a fantastic description and something that I think I would just. I have to underline for. For the people, for the audience, as you're, you know, paying attention, maybe driving in this morning or what have you. One of the things that I really want to amplify that Taylor said is working across every department in the organization and doing so kind of in connection with, as you understand, the broader organizational goals. So you're integral to the conversation. Not just a department that people are sort of, you know, handing things to and saying, hey, can you punch up a proposal?

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07:58
Speaker 3
Right?

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07:58
Speaker 1
Though I'm sure that happens. It's. It's. There's a. There's an aspect of this. It's really strategic where you are working across and connecting with every department. I think that's fantastic.

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08:07
Speaker 2
And I.

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08:08
Speaker 1
And I bet you the percentage of marketing people out there who are getting that kind of engagement from the rest of their company is probably. They're probably marketing people watching this, right? Now, like, record, send to boss, like, immediately. You know, I would be so. I know. I know just the feeling. Okay, so, Ronnie, describe. Describe your. Describe business development to us and kind of how it differentiates from what.

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08:35
Speaker 2
And I'm glad that we're using this opportunity to differentiate the two, because I think it's important because I think it. I think it kind of gets confusing and muddled. First of all, I'm tremendously blessed to have a wing person like Taylor. You know, I mean, it's a great dynamic. It was a revelation when I started working here and. But my focus is obviously, I'm probably going to be the first person that people meet from Chesapeake. So it's up to me to really kind of focus on building strong relationships and just kind of promoting that company brand core values, which you'll see behind me here. You know, everybody at Chesapeake, I think, lives and breathes those core values, but it's also the interface with the client and the building of those relationships. But Taylor is instrumental in helping me promote that brand on.

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09:29
Speaker 2
On a global level. As she mentioned before. It's that taking that relationship from an introductory level and just kind of following up and building on it until it turns into some opportunities and then kind of lifts us up from a revenue standpoint. And it's just a. It's a fun. It's a fun job to do if you're extreme introvert like myself.

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09:52
Speaker 1
Introvert. Yeah. So. So the. What I took away from that, Ronnie, is two big things. One is that you are often the. The tip of the spear, if you will, as it relates to boots on the ground. Yeah. Aerodynamic.

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10:15
Speaker 3
Right.

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10:16
Speaker 1
As it relates to boots on the ground and making new relationships really out there, meeting strangers and spreading the word and being a good representation of the brand. So that's one. And then the second is care and nurturing of the relationships and the opportunities that can come out of those. So that the. All of those efforts from marketing and business development, whether it's the two of you or other people inside the company. Right. Because they're doing it too, on some level, gets con. You know, converted into revenue that ultimately that we see a return on investment for that effort.

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11:00
Speaker 2
Right. And you can do all the networking you want. And I highly recommend, I mean, if you're going to be a business developer and you're going to be serious about it, you have to get in that mindset that you have to do the work, the legwork, and that means identifying those organizations that are going to support the markets that you're trying to penetrate and you have to just go over and over again. So where a familiar face turns into a friendly face, which leads to a conversation, which leads to maybe a meeting off site. But there has to be a follow up there. And I'm glad you. Again, I'm glad we're talking about this because we recently did internally at Chesapeake Contracting Group.

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11:42
Speaker 2
We did an introduction to business development and how to build your professional brand with the intent on making everybody in the company, regardless of their position, a business developer. And get in that mindset to promote the company, ask the questions of the client and really just get invested in the success of the yourself and get access. Get invested in the success of the company as a whole. And I think we're on the right track. I mean, we always, there's always room for improvement. My gosh, I know I'm learning new things every day and I've been doing this for close to 40 years. But then you start working with people with Taylor in the company, and Taylor's just one person in Chesapeake that's an amazing professional at what they do. I mean, the company's chock full of them.

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12:26
Speaker 2
And yeah, it takes us forever to hire, but I'm glad it does. It pays off.

‍ ‍

12:31
Speaker 1
You guys are kind of happy where you are. I can tell. That's enough of that. All right, everybody. Not everybody's so damn happy.

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12:40
Speaker 3
Sorry.

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12:41
Speaker 1
I respect the heck out of it. I'm really, I'm proud of you and I'm proud of the company for that. I. So, you know, one of the things that I, I try to put myself in everybody's shoes. I've certainly been a business developer, you know, on some level myself. Ronnie, what do you. I think the hardest part, I think the hardest part of the job for somebody who is really good at being out there shaking hands, kissing babies, meeting strangers, you know, that part of it is the follow up, the organization, the structure side of things. I don't know if you had two or three pieces of advice for somebody who is maybe wired like you, likes to be an extrovert, likes to be out there pressing the flesh.

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13:33
Speaker 1
What, what secrets are there to staying in control of the follow up and the data management?

‍ ‍

13:41
Speaker 2
Wash your hands often, right.

‍ ‍

13:47
Speaker 3
Fail.

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13:48
Speaker 2
Don't never be afraid to ask the client what it looks like for follow up. And instead of, you know, I like to say, you know, how do I stay in front of you without being a pain in the rear and.

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14:00
Speaker 1
Or being a pest rather than guessing, you're literally just getting the test don't be afraid.

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14:06
Speaker 2
Everybody's adults. Don't be afraid to call it out and establish those boundaries. Ask them if does that look like six months, six weeks? Does it, Is it eight weeks? What is an appropriate time to stay in front of you and let you know that I'm still interested in your business? Another one is just, you know, understand the value of the relationship and what it means and don't be afraid of rejection. I always tell people and I like to, I really like to connect with up and coming developers and because I know the obstacles into getting a project built can be insurmountable at times. And the important thing is tenacity. Stay with it. What can I do to be a resource? How can I, you know, just tell me how I can help you and this it.

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14:55
Speaker 2
And I always like to tell people this and they probably are tired of hearing me, but this is a karma business and I like to give without the expectation of return and I always try to instill that in our employees, man, go the extra mile but, and just do it because it's the right thing to do and because it's kind and you know, I am one of those people that hopefully, you know, I'm going to put myself out there. And you know what, there may come a time when you need a hand or you need a good word and that person is going to be there for you. And that's my mantra, I guess.

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15:31
Speaker 1
I just got an email this morning, funny enough, I just got an email this morning from somebody who is working at a client of mine as a result of, you know, they ended up finding themselves out of work and a couple of, you know, a couple of weeks later I ended up finding out about it. I ended up making a connection and it's a year later and they're working and he just, he sent me a note, he said, hey, a year in, I just wanted you to, I almost want to like read it verbatim. But he said, you know, life is timing and relationships, you know, and that was exact. I mean that's the quote as I look at it, you know, warmed up my morning for sure. And, and it's. Here's what I love Ronnie, about what you just said.

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16:13
Speaker 1
That, that I totally expected you to give me some like really technical BD style, like go pro BD style answer where you were like, you know, set aside two hours a week to do X write number this number of emails a week and then send out handwritten notes to this number. All that stuff is happening. I know it is because I know you're a machine. But. But what. What I love is that the emphasis isn't on some sort of, like, metrics, and. And the. The emphasis is on relationships. And it's like, I just do what I think is appropriate for all those relationships. And if you care enough, you're.

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16:52
Speaker 3
You're.

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16:52
Speaker 1
It will bother you if you're not staying in contact with these people. And I know that is such a more sustainable and genuine way to go about business development. Follow up. That was awesome. I'm like, I don't know if you saw. I'm sitting over here scribbling notes for myself. Like, that is. That's wonderful, Ronnie. That's fantastic.

‍ ‍

17:11
Speaker 2
So.

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17:12
Speaker 1
So I. I want to hear about Taylor, how you support. How. How does marketing and business development. How do marketing and business development play together? How. How does. And. And then I know you actually do get involved a little bit in. In some of the networking activities and things along those lines. I'd like to just sort of hear about why you do that and pluses and minuses, things like that.

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17:34
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I view marketing as a support role to Ronnie. Any of the materials, any of the presentations that he needs, I'm the one who does that. What I think works so well with Ronnie and me and why we have such a great relationship is he really respects the amount of time it takes to do that. I think the quickest way to make a marketing professional mad is to say, like, oh, it'll just take you two seconds. The goal is really effortless, but it's not always effortless, and it takes time. And so that's something I always appreciate with Ronnie is he always says, is this enough time for you to get this back to me? So that's really the way that Ronnie and I work together. I. Ronnie loves to tell the story that when he first started, I hated going to networking events.

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18:25
Speaker 4
It was not my thing. I just really enjoyed my little marketing bubble. And while that's still the case, I don't hate networking like I do, especially with Ronnie as your wingman. Everyone knows you in the room. But now I really like to go. It's the one time, other than individual meetings, where I can speak with owners and clients and consultants and trade partners and learn directly from them what's important to them. And as a marketer, you're always wanting to communicate what matters to your audience. And so going to those networking events and having those conversations has been really vital for the way that we communicate what we do and what matters to an owner, what matters to a trade partner, what matters to an architect, that's really important. And I appreciate those conversations at networking events to give me that insight.

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19:25
Speaker 1
The difference between marketing content that is clearly designed by somebody who understands what the customer care about, who understands their world, who's really talked to them, and beyond just getting to know them, but really talk to them about their business and. And marketing content that is a guess at what they think matters is noticeable. And I think what you're doing there, that it's. I. It's funny. I think you're mostly doing it because Ronnie makes you. But. But the joke. No, I don't mean makes you. I mean, maybe makes you feel guilty if you don't. But I. But I think that investment in really learning about the industry, I mean, how long have you been with Chesapeake?

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20:18
Speaker 4
5 and a half years, right?

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20:19
Speaker 1
You. You can talk about the construction industry like somebody who's been in it for 10 plus. And the. The. For a marketing person, that's craziness. Like that tends not to happen. So anyway, kudos on that. I think that's exactly why that your. Your marketing is so on point, is that it's. It's. It is tailored pun not intended to your audience. So, you know, there was a little bit of reference to this earlier. How does the rest of the organization contribute to your success in your role? Because I gotta tell you, I mean, I got story after story where I'm like, I see, you know, fill in the blank with AEC firm, right? And they're like, well, we need new business. So we hired a business developer. We ran out of the need for new business. We fired the business developer.

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21:13
Speaker 1
We hired a business developer, the marketing person, because they were supposed to bring in business and they didn't bring in business, so we fired them. And I'm like, it really sounds like you're putting them out there on an island where that's just their job. I don't know. The rest of our company has no responsibility for actually winning work. It's just the two of you. Go figure it out. I know that's not how it works at Chesapeake, but I'm interested in how it feels to each of you.

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21:35
Speaker 2
What is.

‍ ‍

21:35
Speaker 1
What is it like? You know, how does the rest of the organization support your success in your roles?

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21:44
Speaker 4
Johnny, Ronnie, I'll jump in, and then you can go after me. I think something that Chesapeake really says all the time is we don't chase projects, we chase relationships. And so everyone having that mentality at the company makes you want to do what's right for the relationship and not for the project. So Ronnie and I don't feel this, oh, we have to bring in all this work and we have to go get all these projects. It' that's not where our headspace is at all. And that is really beneficial in the long run. But what I will say is I always think that our superintendents, our operations team, they are so vital to the success of the relationships that we have. I can say how wonderful we'll build your project and how great our team is and how awesome our culture is.

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22:38
Speaker 4
And then you go on the job site and it's not that. And so how quickly you can lose trust when you're marketing one thing and your team is doing another. So our operations teams, our accounting team, everyone is so important in making sure that the relationship maintains is great throughout the course of the entire project.

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23:02
Speaker 1
And important key, yeah, you're out there making promises to your customer. But, but what you're saying is, you know, sure, everybody gets involved. We do have this over development mindset, yada. But, but more than all of that, it's like everybody truly is cash in the, you know, they're acting in the way that we're promising we're going to act. And so fundamentally there's nothing that anybody can do more than actually be consistent with what we say we are.

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23:30
Speaker 2
And it goes back to our core values and you know, to build on what Taylor was saying. First of all, working with ccg, we have leadership that really understands what building a relationship means and how long it could take six months, it could take two years. But the important thing is it's everybody's role. From what I do, I think it's great because I don't have to do any talking in presentations. I'll do an introduction and I just sit back and let our ops be. Our operations people do the talking because they're so good at what they do and I have so much respect for them. You just, you let them just give them all the rope and they're gonna run with it.

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24:15
Speaker 2
And they're the ones that impress upon the client or prospective client what our approach is, what our core values, what our value add is, particularly from a pre construction standpoint. And I think a lot of our clients and people that I interact with, I think they're going to tell you that we qualify our clients as much as they're Qualifying us. I mean, look, everybody on this broadcast is probably crazy busy right now and they understand the human capital is the most critical thing in our workplace today, in our industry. I don't know so much from other industries. I know in the construction industry, not just people, but the right people that are going to fit into your company culture are going to understand and live those core values. I mean, that's kind of what it's all about for me.

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25:07
Speaker 2
But I get to be the, like we said earlier, I get to be the front, the tip of the spear, so to speak, and bringing those people and developing it and developing an interest in Chesapeake and what we do and more importantly, how we do it, that really is the difference maker in my world. And when we go to a project, like the biggest marketing or busy business development tool I have is project tours. We go on a project tour, we give the team the heads up. You go on there. It's crazy. It's how workmanship, like the quality, the safety that everything is tight and there's a pride of ownership there and a pride of workmanship that transcends, you know, and it just, it's an awesome thing to see.

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25:52
Speaker 1
So, awesome thing to be a part of. I will, I, I, I wish we had more time. So Seth has been engaging with the audience and I'm sure has some comments and questions and things to bring to the surface. Before he does that, I just want to summarize two key thoughts that I'm having coming away from this. One is obviously there's a mutual respect and a chemistry between the two people who are the front lines in the go get and the create a new opportunity side of your organization. And that's key. But the organization, every question that we just answered, that you just answered around how does the team best contribute?

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26:45
Speaker 1
I really, I think the greatest answer of all is to be an organization that we can be proud of and that we can have a thousand percent confidence that when we make a promise, when we bring in a new person, that when we highlight or showcase what we're doing, we're going to be proud. And so it's not much more complicated than that, but it really does require everybody to uphold the standard. So with that, Seth, what do we have from the group? What do you feel like these two.

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27:24
Speaker 3
Should be hearing and answering specific questions? But something that I think people touch, he touched on Ronnie, that I'd love you to follow up on is you said your response was going from meeting someone, being familiar to friendly to having a Conversation and then a follow up and sort of that flow. Give some practical advice to business development managers or BD folks that handling the rejection, the things that come in that whole process from being fielded because it's easy to get hung up on or to get discouraged and just I'm not calling back. And someone rightly pointed out that timing is everything and don't count a no as no for good. It might just not be the right time. So anything that you can practically give to people along those lines.

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28:13
Speaker 2
So if I, I guess the most important thing is for from my perspectives and that of Chesapeakes is that it's about a fit. And a lot of people that's an easy word, but it's the most important word. Just determine if you're a fit and if you're not a fit, be adult enough to say and put that agreement up front that if we're not a fit, I give you permission to tell me that you don't think we're a fit. And I would like your permission to tell you that we're not a fit.

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28:46
Speaker 2
Because at the end of the day you can do all the follow up all you want, but if your companies aren't in alignment from a core value standpoint, from a marketing, from a market approach standpoint, if it's not a fit, it's just, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be wasted time. That said, you can still be a resource for that person because who knows, they might go work somewhere else for another company and they're going to remember how you were with them. They're going to remember and the company they go work for might be that fit for you. So it's important to really nurture those relationships.

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29:25
Speaker 1
So maybe the recipe for dealing with rejection in a business development seat has more to do with not thinking about, how about this, with not wanting the sale as much as you just want whatever should happen to happen. And if the, and if the answer is that we shouldn't work together, that's okay. You know, it becomes really easy if we set it up that way. Hey, it's not a fit, that's okay. We identified it's not a fit. Let's do this other thing. But that in your mind, that's not rejection. If you. If we discover that it's not a fit.

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29:59
Speaker 2
That's exactly right. And another point I would like to. Another point I want to illustrate is if you're going to send if you're a business developer or you're a marketer or, and you, or you're sending your people to a networking event. Coach them, set them up for success. Don't just send them among the wolves to fend for themselves. Get an attendees list from the organization, whoever that organization is and they should be, you know, glad to give you that attendees list because why are they there? They're a networking organization. Pick three to five people in it, write their names down, write their companies down and put them on a little piece of paper. That's your hit list.

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30:41
Speaker 2
You're going to go into that networking function and you're going to be you have a targeted strategic approach and then ask whoever you've sent into the wolf den to just kind of give you a summary back about what their experience was at that particular event. Did it have value? Who did you meet and follow up? Regardless of what they do follow up because they person they're strategic partners which we call, you know, a strategic partner could be anybody, but it's people that are going to provide you or provide an introduction perhaps, or perhaps you can provide an introduction for them. That's kind of the point of the whole networking thing.

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31:23
Speaker 1
Taylor, what your look like you're about to say something.

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31:26
Speaker 4
Well, Ronnie never touched on this, but I never met another person who like lives and breathes their CRM system the way that Ronnie does. He is in there tracking everything. And especially when you have other people involved in business development, in our case leadership all being on the same understanding and playing field is so important and I think tactically that's something you can take away is that if you're not utiliz CRM, it's been so vital, I think to the success of the way that we build relationships, knowing who has who and Ronnie's really good about that and he didn't touch on that.

‍ ‍

32:08
Speaker 2
So I was.

‍ ‍

32:10
Speaker 1
How many hours a week should I be planning to mess around with my CRM, Ronnie? How many hours a week do I need to budget?

‍ ‍

32:16
Speaker 2
How many hours a week, how much content do you have to put in there?

‍ ‍

32:20
Speaker 1
If I'm working, if I'm working like you're working, how many hours I live in it.

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32:26
Speaker 2
That's the first thing I turn in all every day I turn on the CRM and you know, I just constantly making sure the updates are being done. I'm doing my updates as I should be doing them and just keeping it tight.

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32:40
Speaker 1
But if you're taking notes on a.

‍ ‍

32:42
Speaker 2
Call, I'm Three hours a week in it. At least I got it. At least.

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32:45
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was just gonna say it's like if. If there's the. There's the. If you're taking notes on a call, you got your CRM up. If you're making phone calls and you're following up with people, you got your CRM up. If you're sending emails, you're doing it through your CRM. And then there may be some, you know, typing in notes of other things that happened at networking event. This, that, the other thing.

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33:02
Speaker 2
If there's a new article, say if there's a newspaper article that has attracted me to a certain client, I'll. I'll copy and paste that article into the CRM under that client. But also if I go to a conference and I got, you know, 40 business cards, but I've got 10 of those that are really potential.

‍ ‍

33:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.

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33:23
Speaker 2
For us, then I have to put all that information in there. And of course, it's the research involved, you know, to determine if that client is a fit, at least superficially, until you get to the nuts and bolts.

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33:34
Speaker 1
Of what they're about. And I'll reiterate something that you said earlier, which is, as long as you're in the mindset of building relationships with the humans on the other end of that and you recognize the CRM as a tool that's going to help you to do that, it's not some death march where you got to open up your CRM and do it. It's. It's something that you.

‍ ‍

33:52
Speaker 2
It's.

‍ ‍

33:52
Speaker 1
It's your friend. It's your tool. What do you use for CRM? What's your tool?

‍ ‍

33:55
Speaker 2
Insightly.

‍ ‍

33:57
Speaker 1
Insightly.

‍ ‍

33:58
Speaker 4
Yeah.

‍ ‍

33:58
Speaker 2
And slightly. And, Taylor, thank you for the. Thanks for the kudos, but Taylor's like the guru of insightly. Everything I know about slightly, I've learned.

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34:08
Speaker 4
From Taylor because I'm young.

‍ ‍

34:12
Speaker 1
You should have seen Ronnie trying to log on today. I just want the record to show it was, you know, what kind of show it was.

‍ ‍

34:23
Speaker 2
Taylor literally got me on FaceTime and walked me through it. Thank you.

‍ ‍

34:26
Speaker 4
We figured it out. We're here.

‍ ‍

34:30
Speaker 1
All right. So, Seth. Yeah, I was just going to say. What else? We probably have time for one more here.

‍ ‍

34:35
Speaker 3
One more quick question, Taylor, for the marketing people in the room. You said you referenced that, like overseeing. Give us a quick rundown of the things that fall in your wheelhouse. Because people think, oh, marketing is just social media or branded T shirts to make sure people in the field have stuff. Give us a quick rundown of all the areas that you oversee as the director of all things marketing.

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35:02
Speaker 4
How much time do we have? I know I kind of touched on it earlier, but I really am across all departments. I do a lot. I don't think people realize how involved marketing and human relationship work together from a culture standpoint. All of our internal events, all of our internal marketing recruitment that all we collaborate so closely with human resources externally, all of our groundbreaking, all of our topping out ceremonies, all of our trade partner events, our external newsletter, our social media, our branding that all falls under the external marketing wing. I work pretty closely with business development and pre construction. I say them together because usually when I'm working with Ronnie to build a presentation or to create marketing collateral that then hopefully leads into a proposal.

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35:57
Speaker 4
And I'm working on team resumes, I'm working on our brochures and our packages for the work that we do. So I really do go everywhere and I work with everyone and that's what I love the most about my job. But it also gives me a really amazing insight into all that we have going on so that I can market it and I can talk about it and I love that. So that's probably a really high level overview of what I do, but I think it sums it up.

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36:27
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's great.

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36:29
Speaker 1
Awesome. All right, guys, I'm going to bring the discussion to a close. As much as I'd love to continue, Taylor and Ronnie, you two are superstars. Thank you so much for coming on, sharing how things really work in your world. And I think, you know, if the whole environment in the construction industry can learn to have more professionalism and you know, a more unified company approach to business development and marketing. I think, I don't know. Chesapeake's experienced a little bit of growth over the past few years. Right? Like it's turned out okay.

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37:06
Speaker 4
Just a little.

‍ ‍

37:09
Speaker 1
I know it has made an impact and you know, not just on the go get work side, but on the go get amazing people side, which you.

‍ ‍

37:19
Speaker 2
Want to work for an amazing company. Reach out to Taylor. I had to go there.

‍ ‍

37:28
Speaker 1
Like, yeah, I don't blame, look, I, you can never fault Ronnie for not having the guts to ask for what he wants. And I, I respect the heck out of it. And I'll just say, you know, you guys are a great product of a great organization. So thank you so much for joining and I will Seth, you and I want to just wrap up a couple of things before we jump off. Taylor and Ronnie. Any final words?

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37:54
Speaker 4
No, thank you.

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37:54
Speaker 2
Thank you so much for having us on. Give us a platform. Chad. Seth, it was a pleasure to meet you.

‍ ‍

38:00
Speaker 3
Likewise.

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38:01
Speaker 2
Taylor will meet for beers later today. And then.

‍ ‍

38:08
Speaker 1
At the end of the day as a business developer, it was good. All right, guys, thank you.

‍ ‍

38:15
Speaker 2
Take care.

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38:16
Speaker 1
Yep. Seth, thank you so much. You did a fantastic job today. I think, you know, engaging with the group on LinkedIn. I think I even saw that Stacy was on the LinkedIn chat from Jolly old England. Stacy, we miss you, but thank you so much for teeing us up with Seth. I just wanted to say a brief word, Seth, if you would tell us 30 seconds about your business.

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38:40
Speaker 3
So, yeah, my business is essentially marketing for construction companies. I've branded as construction video pros, though. I'll kind of do everything from web design to social media management. But content is my specialty. The storytelling, photography, videography. Far too many companies. A lot of what Taylor discussed is in recruitment, just sharing the company story, the branding, and so using video and great imagery to share a company story. And that's used for internal videos to help train their people and showcase external videos to recruit, tell people stories. Why do you like to work here? What do we do different? And then also build authority. The worst four words you can hear from someone that looks at your company is I had no idea. Meaning when they finally saw who you are and what you do. Like, wow, I thought you were just a paper.

‍ ‍

39:34
Speaker 1
I didn't know you did that.

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39:35
Speaker 3
I didn't know you did that. Goodness. Because that means their perception is wrong. And I guess I'd say I'm in the business of perception management and I want to help make sure that people get the right perception of your company, other companies.

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39:51
Speaker 1
I know that you and Stacy work hand in hand together on some projects where, you know, Stacy is the guide and consultant for her client on their overall marketing strategy and just speaks incredibly highly of your ability when it comes to understanding how to do the storytelling aspect. So I just wanted a moment for you to tell that story because I think it's something that our audience ought to be aware of. Next week, guys, we are going to be on again live on the 27th, 9am Eastern, where we're going to have Mike Wisnevsky, who is the CEO of Materials Exchange, which is a raw materials digital marketplace. And we're going to be talking about the Amazonification of the, you know, building materials and perhaps beyond in the building industry. I can't wait to get into it with Mike.

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40:45
Speaker 1
He's got some big ideas and I look forward to some spirited argument and discussion between, you know, he and myself and also our audience. So please join us. And then finally, as always, if anybody that you know or you are trying to create positive change in the building industry and you have a story to share, the morning huddle is a platform. So please be in touch with us. We're full for this season, but we are building, you know, our game plan for the winter, which will be season four. And look forward to having people, you know, wonderful new introductions. So please pass those along. Seth, thanks again. Have a great one. Any final words?

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41:25
Speaker 3
No, this was good. Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks, everyone for tuning in. I think, I think the format's great. It's quick, it's short, it's in the morning and tons of value for people in a myriad of roles and industries.

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41:37
Speaker 1
We hope. We hope. All right. Thanks, Seth. Have a great one. Thanks, audience. Appreciate it. See you next time.

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